Dean Smith

[Tomaszk]

Don't let this troll derail.

@Vive_La_Villa has made some great points recently.

[MaVilla]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Agree with all this. I didn’t say sticking with Dyche was the right thing for Burnley to do at the time. My point was in response to a poster saying they wanted us to be organised like Burnley. I was merely pointing out Dyche didn’t do it overnight and suffered relegation in the meantime. 

Good point.

Honestly I am a bit concerned with where we are currently.

However, something many of us said when we got promoted last season was stability, the fact we went through managers like water, and that the instability added to the poor recruitment etc was at least partly to blame for our predicament. (Decade of Decline and relegation /failure to get promoted).

With that in mind, I would stick with deano, even if relegated.

But, I completely agree that we need to Improve in terms of "fight", we are too weak and easy to play through, too stand off, too.....yellow belly?

I just don't think swapping manager is the right thing, we need stability and a plan. (Which is what we all said we needed when promoted, and that purslow and deano say we do have).

I'm not detracting from the issues the team has currently, I completely agree the team has some major issues that need addressing.

 

PS, if we were to change manager, imo we would need to go big or go home, ie: someone like Poch and say it's a WIP heres a blank chequebook to get us top 6.

Anything other than that is just replacing one inexperienced PL manager for another probably, but yeah, ideally we need to stick with deano imo.

 

 

[Laughable Chimp]

13 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Good point.

Honestly I am a bit concerned with where we are currently.

However, something many of us said when we got promoted last season was stability, the fact we went through managers like water, and that the instability added to the poor recruitment etc was at least partly to blame for our predicament. (Decade of Decline and relegation /failure to get promoted).

 

 

 

I have to disagree on the fact that we got promoted last season due to stability. If stability were the reason we got promoted eventually, we would've come up with Steve Bruce. We only had Dean Smith for a couple of months before he got us promoted, it was a mid-season change due to the fact that our previous manager was failing to produce despite being given time and the gamble came off for us. In short, it was not a decision that favored stability that got us promoted, but a decision that risked instability.

As I've mentioned before on the topic, our relegation can be blamed on a myriad of factors but the instability due to managerial changes would not be one of the larger factors imo. Or rather, its not that instability due to changing managers was good, it was that stability with the previous managers were even worse. Would you honestly you'd rather stay with Alex Mcleish in lieu of "stability"? What about Paul Lambert? He was bringing us down a season earlier if we had stuck by him. The managers we had during those couple of years I feel were all given decent time to show what they could do, but it was clear to most of us when they did get sacked that they just didn't have it in them to bring us up. Again, it was less the instability of chopping and changing managers that was the problem, as it was the fact that we never actually replaced our previous managers with any good ones. As proven by  Mcleish, Lambert, Sherwood and Garde's CV after leaving us.(they're all crap).

Edited December 24, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[TRO]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

I want a long-term plan implemented at the club. I'd stick with Dean even if we went down this year because I believe we'd come up stronger again next time. Short-termism in football doesn't help build anything and we haven't built anything for years and years. 

A  bloody short term one would do me.

[Fairy In Boots]

If we go down we lose Grealish and Mings, also McGinn. 

Coupled with our losses the last few years relegation is catastrophic for this club. No ifs or buts it’s catastrophic anyone thinking otherwise needs to realise this. 

If we lose against Norwich he must go and I like Smith I really do. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

You know it took Burnley around 6 years including a relegation to be able to play the way they do. It’s a shame Smith is expected to it overnight. Hopefully if he does get sacked there is a manager out there that can do it overnight.

Are you having a laugh....They have been like they are for years.....they even have 2 players of ours who were deemed lightweight Lowton and Westwood, yes by me as well.....but Sean Dyche has made players of them. Chris Wilder has done the same.....and judging by Southampton, they have learned too.

Dean Smith won't get the sack.....and I hope he doesn't, because that means he will fix our problems

No matter what what you think of Dean...... we cannot continue with such glaring errors and plod on, thinking time will fix it.....time fixes nothing on its own.....we need effective action.

 

[Fairy In Boots]

At the start of the season you looked at it and thought “we’ll be fine” now I look at it and think “we need to do something to sort it out otherwise we’re doomed” that isn’t the trajectory you want from a manager after 18 games. 

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

They both did fine last season

Maybe you should go back and look at your own posts from last season

Credibility crashing by minute

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

 

We have had plenty of games this season where certain traits of the game have been superb.....whilst at the same time other certain traits like defensive capability has been poor.

I hear your claim about gelling and players from a different league and while it has a legitimate tone, it's also worth remembering the french influx that didn't work....we have spent £130 million  to have players defend like that.

 

It has been a mixed bag. We have played really well in some games, dire in others and so so in others. I can think of a few games where we didn't get what our overall play deserved but not many where we stole points. We have been inconsistent which is exactly what I'd expect having so many new players and so many inexperienced players in terms of playing at this level.

Defensively there is no doubt we have been poor. I'd imagine getting an understanding defensively though is the one area of the pitch that really does take time. Engels, Konsa, Targett, Heaton and Guilbert all joined the club in the summer. Mings and Hause were here for a few months last season. Engels, Mings and Targett have all been injured and missed a number of games at different times. I doubt the same back four has played together more than a handful of times. Also add in that the defensive midfielders in Nakamba/Luiz are new to the club.

I am surprised when it is brought up but as for the 130 mill accusation it worked out at just over 10 mill a player which in the premier league is now sadly not a lot of money.

I genuinely don't know what some fans expected other than for this season to be a real struggle and for us to be in a relegation battle for all of it. My hope was that we'd stay up this season and I said from day one I'd take 17th all day long. If you set your expectations higher than that then I think you set yourself up for disappointment.

The bottom line is with so many players leaving in the summer, so many therefore needing to come in, so many of those who did come in being new to this country/taking a step up in level, and so many of those who were here last season having either no, or next to no, premier league experience, then it was never going to be a team that clicked quickly or even within a few months especially given the chopping and changing we have had to do defensively. It is going to take time.

Smith showed us what he can do last season when he produced a minor miracle after a slow start and got us promoted whilst playing some cracking stuff in comparison to his predecessor. Now having taken a step up and having had to assemble a new squad lets again allow him time and give him our backing to see if he can again get it right and achieve the aim this season of survival.

Edited December 24, 2019 by markavfc40

[KHV]

6 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

It has been a mixed bag. We have played really well in some games, dire in others and so so in others. I can think of a few games where we didn't get what our overall play deserved but not many where we stole points. We have been inconsistent which is exactly what I'd expect having so many new players and so many inexperienced players in terms of playing at this level.

Defensively there is no doubt we have been poor. I'd imagine getting an understanding defensively though is the one area of the pitch that really does take time. Engels, Konsa, Targett, Heaton and Guilbert all joined the club in the summer. Mings and Hause were here for a few months last season. Engels, Mings and Targett have all been injured and missed a number of games at different times. I doubt the same back four has played together more than a handful of times. Also add in that the defensive midfielders in Nakamba/Luiz are new to the club.

I am surprised when it is brought up but as for the 130 mill accusation it worked out at just over 10 mill a player which in the premier league is now sadly not a lot of money.

I genuinely don't know what some fans expected other than for this season to be a real struggle and for us to be in a relegation battle for all of it. My hope was that we'd stay up this season and I said from day one I'd take 17th all day long. If you set your expectations higher than that then I think you set yourself up for disappointment.

The bottom line is with so many players leaving in the summer, so many therefore needing to come in, so many of those who did come in being new to this country/taking a step up in level, and so may of those who were here last season having either no, or next to no, premier league experience, then it was never going to be a team that clicked quickly or even within a few months especially given the chopping and changing we have had to do defensively. It is going to take time. 

Smith showed us what he can do last season when he produced a minor miracle after a slow start and got us promoted whilst playing some cracking stuff in comparison to his predecessor. Now having taken a step up and having had to assemble a new squad lets again allow him time and give him our backing to see if he can again get it right and achieve the aim this season of survival.

Our biggest problem is midfield

It offers no protection at all, the press is incoherent and they don’t pick up runners or track back

They don’t know how to work as a unit and we keep chopping and changing it

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

42 minutes ago, TRO said:

Are you having a laugh....They have been like they are for years.....they even have 2 players of ours who were deemed lightweight Lowton and Westwood, yes by me as well.....but Sean Dyche has made players of them. Chris Wilder has done the same.....and judging by Southampton, they have learned too.

Dean Smith won't get the sack.....and I hope he doesn't, because that means he will fix our problems

No matter what what you think of Dean...... we cannot continue with such glaring errors and plod on, thinking time will fix it.....time fixes nothing on its own.....we need effective action.

 

This honestly reads like you've never worked hard for something your entire life.

From my finances, career, education, sports accomplishments, fitness, nutrition whatever I've put my mind to, it has taken a plan, discipline and PATIENCE. It's not like you just start a project/class and have a phd in chemistry after 12 months. 

Dodging weight doesn't happen over night. I dropped 40 pounds in 2017. Surprisingly I had the right plan, but it took a long time of brutal patience and discipline to get where I wanted to be. 

There's a large amount of good managers, but mentality where you can't accept thinking long term and working for it, just stops progress for so many sides. If you got a manager that wants and tries to implement attractive football, maybe it's smart to be patient. 

We seriously JUST had the same scenario last season and we came back stronger. I am just amazed people can't just rally behind Deano. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Are you having a laugh....They have been like they are for years.....they even have 2 players of ours who were deemed lightweight Lowton and Westwood, yes by me as well.....but Sean Dyche has made players of them. Chris Wilder has done the same.....and judging by Southampton, they have learned too.

Dean Smith won't get the sack.....and I hope he doesn't, because that means he will fix our problems

No matter what what you think of Dean...... we cannot continue with such glaring errors and plod on, thinking time will fix it.....time fixes nothing on its own.....we need effective action.

 

Yet it took him until the 5th season in charge and second attempt in the top flight before he could keep them up. My original post was in response to somebody who wanted us to employ somebody like Dyche.   Even Dyche needed time. I accept he had to do it without a budget like ours and very low expectations but it still took time. 

[jim]

31 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

We seriously JUST had the same scenario last season and we came back stronger. I am just amazed people can't just rally behind Deano. 

Except there is a glaring difference! Last season we had one of the strongest teams in the league for the second half of the season who were seriously under performing. This season we don’t have that luxury. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

3 minutes ago, jim said:

Except there is a glaring difference! Last season we had one of the strongest teams in the league for the second half of the season who were seriously under performing. This season we don’t have that luxury. 

This is true, but last season we went on to get promoted. This year we just need to finish 17th. 

[Five Ken McNaughts]

"Something" has to change. And I hope the necessary changes are recognised and implemented by Dean Smith. IF, at some hypothetical point in the future, there is no evidence of that happening – and we are sinking deeper into the mire with blind adherence to "Plan A" – then change will, inevitably, have to happen at a different level. I sincerely hope it is Deano who finds the solution(s) but at the same time I understand the concern. Strangely enough, the last time I found myself counting the number of players on each team, scratching my head at what I was watching, was also against Southampton (5-1 down at half time under Sherwood).

[Phil Silvers]

What we do off the ball and the attempts at worldy passes bugs me the most, this is a coaching issue, when we get the ball some of our players just stand there waiting to see whats gonna happen, give him a decent option ya daft clearing in the woods ffs. 

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Yet it took him until the 5th season in charge and second attempt in the top flight before he could keep them up. My original post was in response to somebody who wanted us to employ somebody like Dyche.   Even Dyche needed time. I accept he had to do it without a budget like ours and very low expectations but it still took time. 

so are you saying Steve Bruce should have been given time?....because that is what you are implying?

Look, I don't want Dean sacked, but I think your argument lacks substance.....you would expect International players to do some things they are not doing......This expectation argument is manure.

we will see on Thursday if the players respond to anything.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Yet it took him until the 5th season in charge and second attempt in the top flight before he could keep them up. My original post was in response to somebody who wanted us to employ somebody like Dyche.   Even Dyche needed time. I accept he had to do it without a budget like ours and very low expectations but it still took time. 

so you are advocating a long wait if we emulate that.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I have to disagree on the fact that we got promoted last season due to stability. If stability were the reason we got promoted eventually, we would've come up with Steve Bruce. We only had Dean Smith for a couple of months before he got us promoted, it was a mid-season change due to the fact that our previous manager was failing to produce despite being given time and the gamble came off for us. In short, it was not a decision that favored stability that got us promoted, but a decision that risked instability.

As I've mentioned before on the topic, our relegation can be blamed on a myriad of factors but the instability due to managerial changes would not be one of the larger factors imo. Or rather, its not that instability due to changing managers was good, it was that stability with the previous managers were even worse. Would you honestly you'd rather stay with Alex Mcleish in lieu of "stability"? What about Paul Lambert? He was bringing us down a season earlier if we had stuck by him. The managers we had during those couple of years I feel were all given decent time to show what they could do, but it was clear to most of us when they did get sacked that they just didn't have it in them to bring us up. Again, it was less the instability of chopping and changing managers that was the problem, as it was the fact that we never actually replaced our previous managers with any good ones. As proven by  Mcleish, Lambert, Sherwood and Garde's CV after leaving us.(they're all crap).

one of the main factors of promotion was Tammy Abraham.....and I am not trying to dilute Deans fantastic achievement, (also factoring in Tammy's lean spell at the end).....his presence  give us so much confidence and swagger.

[foreveryoung]

7 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I'm afraid we won't have Jack Grealish and that is a huge concern. I can't remember an attack that didn't involve him this season.

Liverpool. One of the best games we have played, strange that? Maybe because the tactics didn't involve, pass to jack, pass to jack, pass to jack.