allani Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 11 hours ago, TRO said: I think when John McGinn plays well, we usually play well as a team......when he is off the pace, we usually are too. Which is part of his / our problem (and it applies to most of our midfielders). McGinn doesn't drag us back into matches very often when we are really struggling. He does it occasionally when it is a tight match but very rarely when we are under the cosh. I think that is partly because we were trying to play around the issue that we didn't have a proper no 6 and so McGinn (and others) were already been asked to do something that wasn't fully in line with their strengths. So maybe if he is playing (what I think is) his more natural position of a roaming midfield maverick that may change. For example, I can see him making one of his "robust" tackles to win the ball back in the opposition half that suddenly gets the crowd going (was it Spurs away the season before last when he made a challenge on their right back that basically led directly to a goal?) when he has more licence to wander. Even more hopefully - with a stronger (both physically and ability wise) midfield more capable of controlling the ball and the flow of matches, we (as a team) have far few off days! Just need that missing cog in the middle of the pitch. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 15 hours ago, duke313 said: Think we will need another 8 for that if Douglas Luiz leaves. JJ/McGinn - Kamara - New #8 Yes. Not sure I would fully class that player as a straight 8. I think it is a slightly hybrid 6/8 - someone comfortable on the ball with a good eye for a pass (both the simple lay off and a more incisive ball to initiate an attack) but who is also strong defensively. So someone who can cover Kamara but also dictate play and control the tempo of our game. It is a big, big role. But if we get it right then I think almost everything else falls into place. (Although I personally think we need a "fox in the box" type striker to really fulfill our full potential). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 5 hours ago, allani said: Which is part of his / our problem (and it applies to most of our midfielders). McGinn doesn't drag us back into matches very often when we are really struggling. He does it occasionally when it is a tight match but very rarely when we are under the cosh. I think that is partly because we were trying to play around the issue that we didn't have a proper no 6 and so McGinn (and others) were already been asked to do something that wasn't fully in line with their strengths. So maybe if he is playing (what I think is) his more natural position of a roaming midfield maverick that may change. For example, I can see him making one of his "robust" tackles to win the ball back in the opposition half that suddenly gets the crowd going (was it Spurs away the season before last when he made a challenge on their right back that basically led directly to a goal?) when he has more licence to wander. Even more hopefully - with a stronger (both physically and ability wise) midfield more capable of controlling the ball and the flow of matches, we (as a team) have far few off days! Just need that missing cog in the middle of the pitch. I see it, exactly like you......In a general sense, if the offensive players can trust the defensive players in their role.....the offensive work, becomes more natural and more fluent....and attacking is more cohesive. I think that is exactly McGinns problem he has been played as a 6 for too long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Mcginn isn't good enough to be a roaming maverick. We need another midfielder, Ramsey, kamara and another no 8, with mcginn, sanson, nakamba etc as squad players. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, MaVilla said: Mcginn isn't good enough to be a roaming maverick. We need another midfielder, Ramsey, kamara and another no 8, with mcginn, sanson, nakamba etc as squad players. I don't want to see McGinn leave.....but equally, I don't want him to be a nailed on first teamer either, he should be rotated.....I still want to see a powerhouse in the middle. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, TRO said: I see it, exactly like you......In a general sense, if the offensive players can trust the defensive players in their role.....the offensive work, becomes more natural and more fluent....and attacking is more cohesive. I think that is exactly McGinns problem he has been played as a 6 for too long. 3 minutes ago, MaVilla said: Mcginn isn't good enough to be a roaming maverick. We need another midfielder, Ramsey, kamara and another no 8, with mcginn, sanson, nakamba etc as squad players. I think this season goes one of two ways for McGinn. (a) he is released - to an extent - from some of the more defensive constraints that have been put on him in recent seasons and is rotated more often (meaning he keeps fit / energetic for longer) and thrives or (b) he gets overtaken by JJ. At the moment I think if we sign the type of CM I hope - I think we will mainly see McGinn start and JJ coming on for the last 30 mins. The progress that JJ made last season (or probably since December last season) was immense - if that continues then McGinn will really need to up his game. And to be fair even if he does I expect JJ to be ahead by the end of the season / start of the following season unless McGinn turns in some incredible numbers in terms of assists / goals / etc. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Five down… just one to go 🫢 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 6 hours ago, allani said: Yes. Not sure I would fully class that player as a straight 8. I think it is a slightly hybrid 6/8 - someone comfortable on the ball with a good eye for a pass (both the simple lay off and a more incisive ball to initiate an attack) but who is also strong defensively. So someone who can cover Kamara but also dictate play and control the tempo of our game. It is a big, big role. But if we get it right then I think almost everything else falls into place. (Although I personally think we need a "fox in the box" type striker to really fulfill our full potential). The player you are describing is Douglas Luiz. If he was freed up from the 6 role, and given McGinns, he'd absolutely shine. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 34 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Five down… just one to go 🫢 Todays fashion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 8 hours ago, MrBlack said: The player you are describing is Douglas Luiz. If he was freed up from the 6 role, and given McGinns, he'd absolutely shine. I am a big fan of Luiz - but I don't think he is the player I am describing. Kamara being the only addition to a midfield three with Luiz and McGinn will not get us into the top 10. For a start we are only one injury away from the same midfield we have had for the last 2 seasons and it hasn't worked. JJ will take over from McGinn soon enough - but Kamara, Luiz and JJ is also not the answer. Personally I would like Luiz to sign a new contract - having him and McGinn (or JJ) on the bench would be indicative that we have a really strong midfield. And I don't think Kamara, ano and Luiz is the answer either because I don't think Luiz is a box-to-box option. But having to choose three from Kamara, ano, Luiz, JJ and McGinn would be a massive progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, allani said: I am a big fan of Luiz - but I don't think he is the player I am describing. Kamara being the only addition to a midfield three with Luiz and McGinn will not get us into the top 10. For a start we are only one injury away from the same midfield we have had for the last 2 seasons and it hasn't worked. JJ will take over from McGinn soon enough - but Kamara, Luiz and JJ is also not the answer. Personally I would like Luiz to sign a new contract - having him and McGinn (or JJ) on the bench would be indicative that we have a really strong midfield. And I don't think Kamara, ano and Luiz is the answer either because I don't think Luiz is a box-to-box option. But having to choose three from Kamara, ano, Luiz, JJ and McGinn would be a massive progression. I'm not saying we don't need another midfielder, but if the midfield 3 was Ramsey Kamara and Luiz I'd be happy. Then we'll have McGinn, Sanson and an.other as backups. McGinn wasn't anywhere near as bad as most people here seem to think he was, and I think he'll be even better with a better dedicated DM behind him like kamara. But I think Luiz would perform that role better, and we could get another option in to be truly truly protected from injury completely derailing our season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Just now, MrBlack said: I'm not saying we don't need another midfielder, but if the midfield 3 was Ramsey Kamara and Luiz I'd be happy. Then we'll have McGinn, Sanson and an.other as backups. McGinn wasn't anywhere near as bad as most people here seem to think he was, and I think he'll be even better with a better dedicated DM behind him like kamara. But I think Luiz would perform that role better, and we could get another option in to be truly truly protected from injury completely derailing our season. My worry is that McGinn, JJ and Luiz routinely got over-run in midfield last season. We've tried other options alongside two of those three and most of the time that hasn't worked either - offensively or defensively. Relying on a young player who has never played in the PL to suddenly transform the entire midfield is a huge ask and a huge risk. I think there will be matches where Kamara, Ramsey and Luiz (or McGinn) might work. And if we had injuries / suspensions to deal with it is a pretty decent fallback position. But I don't think it is enough to provide us the platform in the middle of the park to break into the top 10. We'd be one injury away from fielding the same midfield as we did last season. We shouldn't be signing back-up midfielders - we need to be signing people for the first XI. As I say - I hope he stays because I think he does provide us with options that JJ and McGinn don't. I also agree that I think he'd be much better playing slightly further forward (or at least dropping back to primarily start our attacks rather than to stop the opposition. But I think JJ is the future (ahead of both of Luiz and McGinn) in terms of the more attacking member of a midfield three. I really hope that next season Gerrard has a tough job picking the midfield three because he has quality options - for too long it has felt like McGinn and Luiz have been picked (square pegs, round holes) because they're the only option. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, allani said: I also agree that I think he'd be much better playing slightly further forward (or at least dropping back to primarily start our attacks rather than to stop the opposition..... I really hope that next season Gerrard has a tough job picking the midfield three because he has quality options - for too long it has felt like McGinn and Luiz have been picked (square pegs, round holes) because they're the only option. This is particularly spot on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only2McInallys Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Indigo said: Mcginn plays well we play well. I do think midfield needs refreshing,personally I hope Luiz moves on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 42 minutes ago, Only2McInallys said: Mcginn plays well we play well. I do think midfield needs refreshing,personally I hope Luiz moves on. Agreed Sell: Luiz and Sanson Keep: Ramsey, Kamara, Mcginn, Carney, Nakamba Sign: An expensive upgrade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nepal_villan Posted June 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Only2McInallys said: Mcginn plays well we play well. I do think midfield needs refreshing,personally I hope Luiz moves on. I'm in the same boat but the other way around - keep Luiz, sell McGinn. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 9 hours ago, Indigo said: But but....he is crap. I genuinely wonder what some people see when they watch us. He is a very good player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 9 hours ago, Indigo said: ...but he's shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Made In Aston Posted June 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2022 11 minutes ago, osmark86 said: ...but he's shit He is a good player but, if we want to move to being a possession-based team, he doesn't have the right skillset for it. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts