John McGinn

[The Moustache of Teale]

On 14/06/2022 at 20:11, Mazrim said:

That's foreplay in Glasgow.

Presume you mean going down too easily rather than being hit by a rampaging wildebeest?

[Demitri_C]

Football that has no insiders reckon we will listen to offers for mcginn because gerrard doesnt like his whinging.

I mean they really to close sites like this down as its laughable 

[PaulMcGrath_5]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

Football that has no insiders reckon we will listen to offers for mcginn because gerrard doesnt like his whinging.

I mean they really to close sites like this down as its laughable 

Whilst you still click, read and mention they'll remain. 

[TRO]

I see McGinn lose the ball in dodgy positions, but in terms of appraising him overall, is difficult, when he is being played in a position, not commensurate with his natural talents.

John can defend, but he not a natural defender, with a nose, for defending, particularly positional sense.....John is not a box to box midfelder,either, not a natural runner, he is at his most dangerous, with short bursts towards goal, where his robust, aggressive, style is at its best.....He is direct and when he is, he can be hard to stop.....it usually ends in a foul to stop him......I think his natural talents have been diluted, due to us not having adequate cover at CDM....He has sacrificed himself, for the team.

When Jack was holding the ball up.....John was in close pursuit and lurking in a more advanced threatening position, that's the way he was playing then.......The 0-3 away win at Arsenal, (where his goal was ruled out, due to allegedly blocking the goalkeepers vision) was an epitome of what he does best.....we have played him much too deep.....seemingly because he has an aggressive approach to his game.

We need to play him in the right/correct position, for his skill set , and we will see a better player....more effective.

Edited June 22, 2022 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

On 16/06/2022 at 17:12, CLARETANDBLUEFOXY said:

Rumours Spurs are going in for him - strange move, that. 

It's his agent wanting a new deal for him.

[MaVilla]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

I see McGinn lose the ball in dodgy positions, but in terms of appraising him overall, is difficult, when he is being played in a position, not commensurate with his natural talents.

John can defend, but he not a natural defender, with a nose, for defending, particularly positional sense.....John is not a box to box midfelder,either, not a natural runner, he is at his most dangerous, with short bursts towards goal, where his robust, aggressive, style is at its best.....He is direct and when he is, he can be hard to stop.....it usually ends in a foul to stop him......I think his natural talents have been diluted, due to us not having adequate cover at CDM....He has sacrificed himself, for the team.

When Jack was holding the ball up.....John was in close pursuit and lurking in a more advanced threatening position, that's the way he was playing then.......The 0-3 away win at Arsenal, (where his goal was ruled out, due to allegedly blocking the goalkeepers vision) was an epitome of what he does best.....we have played him much too deep.....seemingly because he has an aggressive approach to his game.

We need to play him in the right position , and we will see a better player....more effective.

his "right" position is a number 10, but to be brutally honest he isnt a good enough number 10 for where we want to be.

There is no way in a million years he can realistically challenge Coutinho, Buendia, or anyone else we might bring in for that type of position, he simply isnt technically good enough.

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

his "right" position is a number 10, but to be brutally honest he isnt a good enough number 10 for where we want to be.

There is no way in a million years he can realistically challenge Coutinho, Buendia, or anyone else we might bring in for that type of position, he simply isnt technically good enough.

sorry, my grammar was poor.....I meant correct position.

I don't he has a natural nose for defending, is my actual point.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, MaVilla said:

his "right" position is a number 10, but to be brutally honest he isnt a good enough number 10 for where we want to be.

There is no way in a million years he can realistically challenge Coutinho, Buendia, or anyone else we might bring in for that type of position, he simply isnt technically good enough.

Nah, his right position isn’t as a number 10. It’s basically where he plays for us, although ideally he’d break into the box/to the edge of the box a bit more. 

[MaVilla]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

sorry, my grammar was poor.....I meant correct position.

I don't he has a natural nose for defending, is my actual point.

yeah i wasnt correcting your grammar, i was just highlighting the emphasis on right/correct position, and how it wont work for us as i dont think he is good enough in his "scotland position".

[Adam2003]

7 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

It's his agent wanting a new deal for him.

I love when people say this about players as if their club wouldn’t have come across that tactic before

Edit - I’m not saying it’s not sometimes true of course! Just all seems bizarre. When the rumour comes from somewhere like Football Insider I think it’s more likely to just be created from nothing.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Adam2003

[Icarium]

6 hours ago, bobzy said:

Nah, his right position isn’t as a number 10. It’s basically where he plays for us, although ideally he’d break into the box/to the edge of the box a bit more. 

He really doesn't though, not last season anyway where he was tasked with covering for the wing backs getting forward. I suspect if someone was to go back and review all of his best performances for us, they would be games where he has had the freedom to push on and drive at defences

[allani]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

I see McGinn lose the ball in dodgy positions, but in terms of appraising him overall, is difficult, when he is being played in a position, not commensurate with his natural talents.

John can defend, but he not a natural defender, with a nose, for defending, particularly positional sense.....John is not a box to box midfelder,either, not a natural runner, he is at his most dangerous, with short bursts towards goal, where his robust, aggressive, style is at its best.....He is direct and when he is, he can be hard to stop.....it usually ends in a foul to stop him......I think his natural talents have been diluted, due to us not having adequate cover at CDM....He has sacrificed himself, for the team.

When Jack was holding the ball up.....John was in close pursuit and lurking in a more advanced threatening position, that's the way he was playing then.......The 0-3 away win at Arsenal, (where his goal was ruled out, due to allegedly blocking the goalkeepers vision) was an epitome of what he does best.....we have played him much too deep.....seemingly because he has an aggressive approach to his game.

We need to play him in the right position , and we will see a better player....more effective.

I have been pretty critical of McGinn over the past couple of seasons - mainly because defensively he is not very good.  However, with two more defensively astute players in a midfield 3 covering for him - I do think he has a role to play as the midfielder with more freedom to roam around the pitch and join up with Emi2 and Couts ahead of him.  It also means that he'll do more of his defensive work on / around the halfway line / opposition half - where I always think his harrying is much more effective.

Putting him in that role will give him the opportunity to play to his strengths and also covers some of his weaknesses.  But his challenge is that that is the exact position that JJ will also be looking to fill.  I hope that this means that the two of them spread the workload between them - which in turn will also help McGinn who often looks shot after 60 mins.  It definitely puts the pressure on McGinn to perform because he will know that JJ is really going to want that position for himself.  But let's face it taking JJ off after 60 mins to bring on McGinn for a 30 minute cameo, or bringing McGinn off to give JJ 30 mins at the end of the match - puts us in a really strong position.  It also gives SG some real options on the bench to react to different match situations.

 

[duke313]

6 hours ago, allani said:

I have been pretty critical of McGinn over the past couple of seasons - mainly because defensively he is not very good.  However, with two more defensively astute players in a midfield 3 covering for him - I do think he has a role to play as the midfielder with more freedom to roam around the pitch and join up with Emi2 and Couts ahead of him.  It also means that he'll do more of his defensive work on / around the halfway line / opposition half - where I always think his harrying is much more effective.

Putting him in that role will give him the opportunity to play to his strengths and also covers some of his weaknesses.  But his challenge is that that is the exact position that JJ will also be looking to fill.  I hope that this means that the two of them spread the workload between them - which in turn will also help McGinn who often looks shot after 60 mins.  It definitely puts the pressure on McGinn to perform because he will know that JJ is really going to want that position for himself.  But let's face it taking JJ off after 60 mins to bring on McGinn for a 30 minute cameo, or bringing McGinn off to give JJ 30 mins at the end of the match - puts us in a really strong position.  It also gives SG some real options on the bench to react to different match situations.

 

Think we will need another 8 for that if Douglas Luiz leaves. 

JJ/McGinn - Kamara - New #8

[Mazrim]

I see a lot of us saying McGinn is best when ******.  And this is my point with him. He's too niche, too limited, for the role we need. 

[TRO]

8 hours ago, allani said:

I have been pretty critical of McGinn over the past couple of seasons - mainly because defensively he is not very good.  However, with two more defensively astute players in a midfield 3 covering for him - I do think he has a role to play as the midfielder with more freedom to roam around the pitch and join up with Emi2 and Couts ahead of him.  It also means that he'll do more of his defensive work on / around the halfway line / opposition half - where I always think his harrying is much more effective.

Putting him in that role will give him the opportunity to play to his strengths and also covers some of his weaknesses.  But his challenge is that that is the exact position that JJ will also be looking to fill.  I hope that this means that the two of them spread the workload between them - which in turn will also help McGinn who often looks shot after 60 mins.  It definitely puts the pressure on McGinn to perform because he will know that JJ is really going to want that position for himself.  But let's face it taking JJ off after 60 mins to bring on McGinn for a 30 minute cameo, or bringing McGinn off to give JJ 30 mins at the end of the match - puts us in a really strong position.  It also gives SG some real options on the bench to react to different match situations.

 

All makes sense, to me.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Mazrim said:

I see a lot of us saying McGinn is best when ******.  And this is my point with him. He's too niche, too limited, for the role we need. 

its a salient point

[barry'sboots]

I love SJM. I think he is an character and leader and always gives 100%. His presence is infectious and I think he inspires others. I agree with a lot of what has been said above - his best work will be done as an attacking "8" and the thought of him rotating with JJ shows what depth we could have with three or four more signings. I see subs/the bench becoming ever more critical (a bit like rugby) now we are moving to five subs and we need adequate depth and the right blend. 

[cheltenham_villa]

21 hours ago, TRO said:

I see McGinn lose the ball in dodgy positions, but in terms of appraising him overall, is difficult, when he is being played in a position, not commensurate with his natural talents.

John can defend, but he not a natural defender, with a nose, for defending, particularly positional sense.....John is not a box to box midfelder,either, not a natural runner, he is at his most dangerous, with short bursts towards goal, where his robust, aggressive, style is at its best.....He is direct and when he is, he can be hard to stop.....it usually ends in a foul to stop him......I think his natural talents have been diluted, due to us not having adequate cover at CDM....He has sacrificed himself, for the team.

When Jack was holding the ball up.....John was in close pursuit and lurking in a more advanced threatening position, that's the way he was playing then.......The 0-3 away win at Arsenal, (where his goal was ruled out, due to allegedly blocking the goalkeepers vision) was an epitome of what he does best.....we have played him much too deep.....seemingly because he has an aggressive approach to his game.

We need to play him in the right position , and we will see a better player....more effective.

So where does he need to play, it's sounds like you'd want him as a 10. In which case he needs to be better than Coutinho and Buendia. 

I agree that he's sacrificed his natural game. I think that is partly for the team and partly because we've got better options in the areas that he's strong.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, cheltenham_villa said:

So where does he need to play, it's sounds like you'd want him as a 10. In which case he needs to be better than Coutinho and Buendia. 

I agree that he's sacrificed his natural game. I think that is partly for the team and partly because we've got better options in the areas that he's strong.

I just don't want him as a deep lying midfielder, defending....I think he is suseptible to allowing opponents to go past him too easily and hasn't got the powers of recovery...hasn't got the athleticism, to help control a midfield.

He will have to fight for a shirt, like they all have to do.....he hasn't got the quick feet and ball retention to play no 10.....not with any great effect anyway....He could be slipping away from his nailed on status, if he doesn't improve.

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

I think when John McGinn plays well, we usually play well as a team......when he is off the pace, we usually are too.