The Fun Factory Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I didn't realise just what a bloated mess of a squad we have until we played 2 games in the same day- and with other players yet to come back to training. Sell baby sell. Edited July 13, 2017 by The Fun Factory 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 hour ago, NIVillan said: Previous I thought you was still there! Need to pay attention more Recently left (as in last week) Its complicated 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: If players don't need a system to be able to do the basics on your list, why do they need time? If anything the argument should be they need time to learn a system. Or is it the manager that needs the time? I would guess a manager needs time to find a system that capitalises on the individual skill each player possess's, yeah. my point was Dave and if you read my post well....I did say "I am not saying you don't need a system" and your opening gambit is " If players don't need a system to do the basics on your list" I still maintain players can be appraised for their individual work without referencing systems. i.e you can't trap a ball because of a system, nah sorry.......a player leaves you for dead, because of a system, I'm struggling here. Edited July 13, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, TRO said: I would guess a manager needs time to find a system that capitalises on the individual skill each player possess's, yeah. my point was Dave and if you read my post well....I did say "I am not saying you don't need a system" and your opening gambit is " If players don't need a system to do the basics on your list" I still maintain players can be appraised for their individual work without referencing systems. i.e you can't trap a ball because of a system, nah sorry.......a player leaves you for dead, because of a system, I'm struggling here. I basically agree with you TRO in that at this level the basics should be there. I would say that the key factor in players performing to their best level is confidence and to some extent familiarity. So the latter supports your time factor argument. Confidence of course is dependent on many factors, results probably being number one. However a system that the players are comfortable with, and it doesn't need to be just one system, definitely helps. The better the player of course, the less help they need to perform, whether it's a system, familiarity or the quality of their team mates. Basically we just need enough of them to "click", however you define that. It didn't happen last year, we need it to happen this year, and reasonably quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I basically agree with you TRO in that at this level the basics should be there. I would say that the key factor in players performing to their best level is confidence and to some extent familiarity. So the latter supports your time factor argument. Confidence of course is dependent on many factors, results probably being number one. However a system that the players are comfortable with, and it doesn't need to be just one system, definitely helps. The better the player of course, the less help they need to perform, whether it's a system, familiarity or the quality of their team mates. Basically we just need enough of them to "click", however you define that. It didn't happen last year, we need it to happen this year, and reasonably quickly. many of the factors are synergetic as you allude to.....but they do have to stand on their own 2 feet at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, TRO said: many of the factors are synergetic as you allude to.....but they do have to stand on their own 2 feet at times. Agreed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Are Aston Villa thinking too short term with their transfer targets? Lets hope we go up this season eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof hearted Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, AshVilla said: Are Aston Villa thinking too short term with their transfer targets? Lets hope we go up this season eh I closed it at "Linked with Chris Samba...." hitc should be killed with fire. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 The problem with our current sell to buy policy is there isn't much interest in what we have to sell 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Has "sell to buy" worked for us since 1979? Could we start to take one or two more players in on loan before other teams get their picks in before we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 minute ago, John said: Has "sell to buy" worked for us since 1979? Could we start to take one or two more players in on loan before other teams get their picks in before we do? Like when we loaned Kyle Walker, now look at him and look at us, eurgh, he's worth almost as much as what Randy sold us for! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dante_Lockhart Posted July 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, Tommo_b said: Like when we loaned Kyle Walker, now look at him and look at us, eurgh, he's worth almost as much as what Randy sold us for! Worth is a strong word. He's not worth 50m at all, City are just mad enough to splodge that much on him. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Worth is a strong word. He's not worth 50m at all, City are just mad enough to splodge that much on him. Agreed the money being asked for players has gone through the roof. Player valuations are crazy but if you want a player you either prepare to pay more than he is worth or to do without that player who in turn stays where he is or moves somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) On 12/07/2017 at 18:39, TRO said: Its interesting this system thing and I am not saying you don't need one, but Not picking on you but I never understand why people dismiss organization, set tasks and personel as a "not very important" facet of the game. Quote does it stop a player from : trapping the ball Getting a tackle in closing down getting close to an opponent passing the ball consistently getting beat in one on ones letting an opponent go by you not reading the game ALL the above become increasingly more difficult when players are set up in such a way that they are either just a mass of bodies intended as a wall, or so lacking in cohesion in positioning, feeling comfortable and able in what their jobs are that they are pulled here and there by the opposition or being so static that movement becomes stop and sprint instead of a group of players moving in tandem. Quote I understand that any team has to have organisation and method and it does have a knock on effect to the player......but I have seen players with some of the above and do have to wonder how much the system plays a part. I remember Bill Shankly being asked " Bill,what do you look for in a player".....he relied " Ah Laddie if he cannot pass the ball he is no good to me" set up a team that is so drawn back and lacking in movement and you would not get Sid to pass to a Villa shirt even in his prime Quote bit simplistic yes.....but the guys do have to be able to cope with the basics......and sometimes last season i was struggling to see it......maybe more time together will help? Hoofing it or using Hutton as the outball while the opposition has time and positional sense to negate and close down hoof/hit and hope pass is only going to mean that all the above that you listed not only becomes difficult to do but also ineffective when players are too close together in our own half and too far apart in the attacking half. But then again, what the **** do I know? I dont have 4 promotions Edited July 14, 2017 by Grasshopper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Could Be Rotterdam Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) Im really concerned about the way we are approaching the window, it has to be one of the most uninspiring in recent times. Last summer we were pretty big spending but 'BUY ALL THE STRIKERS' policy didnt work, so in January we went for buying players in form who already played in this league but we just couldnt put them in a system that worked. We seem to be blindly stumbling around in the dark trying to find a transfer policy that works going into the biggest season weve had in years, with a manager that doesnt seem to know what system to play with the players he currently has, never mind a few more chucked in on top of that. We have players to sell that no one wants. And everyone knows we need to sell them to do any proper business. Id love to feel optimistic but i just cant help feeling we are chucking away another season. Im not convinced we are that far away in terms of squad, so maybe my concerns lie more with the system and the manager. But beyond that we still havent got that identity as a club. A system we stick with and buy players to suit. A system that will work in the championship and not have to be torn up and re-done if/when we get promoted. The article above sums up my fear really, its all short term and we know how that ends. Edited July 14, 2017 by This Could Be Rotterdam 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Grasshopper said: Not picking on you but I never understand why people dismiss organization, set tasks and personel as a "not very important" facet of the game. ALL the above become increasingly more difficult when players are set up in such a way that they are either just a mass of bodies intended as a wall, or so lacking in cohesion in positioning, feeling comfortable and able in what their jobs are that they are pulled here and there by the opposition or being so static that movement becomes stop and sprint instead of a group of players moving in tandem. set up a team that is so drawn back and lacking in movement and you would not get Sid to pass to a Villa shirt even in his prime Hoofing it or using Hutton as the outball while the opposition has time and positional sense to negate and kind of hoof/hit and hope pass is only going to mean that all the above that you listed not only becomes difficult to do but also ineffective when players are too close together in our own half and too far apart in the attacking half. But then again, what the **** do I know? I dont have 4 promotions Apply for the job 'WHEN' it becomes available. I'd love to see you, as an armchair manager, take us to the top. The way you bang on, Id expect champions league qualification in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mjvilla said: Apply for the job 'WHEN' it becomes available. I'd love to see you, as an armchair manager, take us to the top. The way you bang on, Id expect champions league qualification in 3 years. I guess I shouldnt be expressing my opinion on a forum then. Such a shame that Bruce doesnt post here on VT, because maybe then we all on here could have an insight to what he's doing. He got us to 13th didnt he? Behind Warnocks Cardiff right? Maybe you have a take on that? would love to hear somebody elses wisdom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Demitri_C Posted July 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: I guess I shouldnt be expressing my opinion on a forum then. Such a shame that Bruce doesnt post here on VT, because maybe then we all on here could have an insight to what he's doing. He got us to 13th didnt he? Behind Warnocks Cardiff right? Maybe you have a take on that? would love to hear somebody elses wisdom Shouldn't we give him a chance to start a season and see how he gets on? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: I guess I shouldnt be expressing my opinion on a forum then. Such a shame that Bruce doesnt post here on VT, because maybe then we all on here could have an insight to what he's doing. He got us to 13th didnt he? Behind Warnocks Cardiff right? Maybe you have a take on that? would love to hear somebody elses wisdom The thing with your 'opinion' is that it has been expressed as fact too many times to take seriously now. But, Let's employ Warnock then shall we? How well would that go down? How often does changing a manager every 5 minutes actually do good for a club? What happens if we appoint a new manager and then they fail? We are back to bloody square one. We actuallly have a manager who has steadied the ship, it wasn't wonderful, it was steady. Let said manager finish the job, if We aren't near the top or top with a year, 2 transfer windows and lots of time to get this together then let him go. Then, because when Bruce took over you all expected him to get us up/playoffs in the same amount of time, the new manager that you want and clearly will get us up straight away will have lots of time to get us up and do just that. I want us to start the season like a house on fire, genuinely, just to see some tails between legs. It shouldn't be for that reason I want us to start so well, but this constant crap in here and every single thread on VT has kind of forced that upon me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, Mjvilla said: The thing with your 'opinion' is that ..........etc It's a pity that "the status quo" is by default the "right opinion" and that those who express an alternative opinion are labelled "wrong - bad boys of the forum - banging on ......etc" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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