Scott Hogan

[AvfcRigo82]

5 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

No

RDM loaned in Januzaj with the money he got from selling Benny McCarthy who Sherwood bought from Garde

[AvfcRigo82]

Grasshopper taking us through his first season playing Football Manager '18.

[bannedfromHandV]

12 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Grasshopper taking us through his first season playing Football Manager '18.

I wonder if he gets frustrated and starts all over again every time his team loses.

[Dave J]

On 04/12/2017 at 13:57, hippo said:

We needed a goalscorer - so SB brought one, I wouldn't blame him for that. Hogan just hasn't reproduced his form here. You can blame Bruce or the style of play if you wish. However other players are performing better than Hogan (Davis) - Other players are scoring more goals with the same service (Kjodia, Adomah) - Perhaps with the exception of Samba the whole of the team shows more ability to control the ball when they receive it.

We have a signed a player that hasn't delivered - If Bruce signs to many like this he knows what will happen. Thankfully most of his other signings are contributing more than Hogan

How many of Bruce’s other signings cost the thick end of £12 mill ? Yes I agree as a professional footballer he has looked totally out of sorts - however Bruces’s challenge as manager should be to produce a style of play that benefits both player and team and i’m Afraid in Hogan’s case he has done neither imo 

[bannedfromHandV]

12 hours ago, Dave J said:

How many of Bruce’s other signings cost the thick end of £12 mill ? Yes I agree as a professional footballer he has looked totally out of sorts - however Bruces’s challenge as manager should be to produce a style of play that benefits both player and team and i’m Afraid in Hogan’s case he has done neither imo 

So what?

We paid a premium because it was January and he had PL clubs sniffing around him.

No one on here categorically said it was a bad signing at the time, too expensive maybe but not a bad signing.

He hasn't worked out, it's happened before, it'll happen again, it's happened to Managers with better pedigree than SB and will happen to them again too.

And why should we adapt our play for him, do you not think he should be adapting his style to us?

[striker]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

So what?

And why should we adapt our play for him, do you not think he should be adapting his style to us?

With respect most managers buy players who can fit the system they play.

It's being a tad unfair to expect Hogan to play in the same way as either Davis or Kodjia. He simply isn't built to play that way nor has he been given a run of games to at least give him a chance to try and adapt.

When you also consider how many systems and players Bruce has used before injuries hit it's no wonder Hogan hasn't settled.

 

[bannedfromHandV]

40 minutes ago, striker said:

With respect most managers buy players who can fit the system they play.

It's being a tad unfair to expect Hogan to play in the same way as either Davis or Kodjia. He simply isn't built to play that way nor has he been given a run of games to at least give him a chance to try and adapt.

When you also consider how many systems and players Bruce has used before injuries hit it's no wonder Hogan hasn't settled.

 

Funny how everyone else has managed to adapt to this plethora of systems.

If a 19 year old kid can adapt from playing non-league football then why can't a £15m player adapt?

I think players are cut far too much slack, this is not a stick to beat SB with, Hogan has to take full responsibility.

[briny_ear]

15 hours ago, Dave J said:

How many of Bruce’s other signings cost the thick end of £12 mill ? Yes I agree as a professional footballer he has looked totally out of sorts - however Bruces’s challenge as manager should be to produce a style of play that benefits both player and team and i’m Afraid in Hogan’s case he has done neither imo 

You could argue that Bruce has finally produced a style of play that suits the team - just look at our recent results - but that Hogan hasn't adapted or made the required grade. I suppose you can criticise Bruce for not being a soothsayer and foreseeing that this would happen but IMO there is no requirement on Bruce to produce a style of play just so Hogan can feel comfortable with it. If he can't deliver what we need, sell and move on.

[Grasshopper]

4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Funny how everyone else has managed to adapt to this plethora of systems.

If a 19 year old kid can adapt from playing non-league football then why can't a £15m player adapt?

I think players are cut far too much slack, this is not a stick to beat SB with, Hogan has to take full responsibility.

?

would you ask a carpenter to do the job of a plumber?

Davis‘s build enables him to challenge for and hold it up. Hogans build is for movement and poaching on loose balls.

By saying Hogan is a flop BECAUSE he cant deal with hoofs I can presume that if we played quick one-twos ball along the ground with the ball played through the channels for Davis to run on to, when you would see him struggle to be effective you‘d also say he‘s a flop?

 

[Grasshopper]

14 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

You could argue that Bruce has finally produced a style of play that suits the team - just look at our recent results - but that Hogan hasn't adapted or made the required grade. I suppose you can criticise Bruce for not being a soothsayer and foreseeing that this would happen but IMO there is no requirement on Bruce to produce a style of play just so Hogan can feel comfortable with it. If he can't deliver what we need, sell and move on.

why did we buy him then?

[lapal_fan]

11 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

?

would you ask a carpenter to do the job of a plumber?

Davis‘s build enables him to challenge for and hold it up. Hogans build is for movement and poaching on loose balls.

By saying Hogan is a flop BECAUSE he cant deal with hoofs I can presume that if we played quick one-twos ball along the ground with the ball played through the channels for Davis to run on to, when you would see him struggle to be effective you‘d also say he‘s a flop?

 

Hogan has to take some responsibility for his games - once he goes on the pitch, what he does and how he plays is entirely up to him (to a certain point).  

Whenever I play (lol, different standard obviously), if things aren't going well, I try an different approach.  If  coming short doesn't work, go long.  If we're not seeing much of the ball, drop deep and get the ball.  If crossing isn't happening, go help out on the edge of the box.

He's been poor.  Yes, he has scored goals playing in another team, but he's had quite a few chances playing for us, and he's almost entirely been poor. 

I'd love him to come good, but he's going to have to change something, in order to become a success.  I think he'd have success dropping deep to be honest.  From the little we've seen of him, he seems to do well running with the ball at opponents towards their box - but he doesn't do it enough, he's always on the last man - which is fine - but our opponents often play deep, nullifying space behind.  He can't challenge aerially, he's so lightweight he just doesn't win headers, so don't do that.  

[Grasshopper]

20 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Grasshopper taking us through his first season playing Football Manager '18.

I was taking the P*ss out of those of you who do 

[Grasshopper]

1 minute ago, lapal_fan said:

Hogan has to take some responsibility for his games - once he goes on the pitch, what he does and how he plays is entirely up to him (to a certain point).  

Whenever I play (lol, different standard obviously), if things aren't going well, I try an different approach.  If  coming short doesn't work, go long.  If we're not seeing much of the ball, drop deep and get the ball.  If crossing isn't happening, go help out on the edge of the box.

He's been poor.  Yes, he has scored goals playing in another team, but he's had quite a few chances playing for us, and he's almost entirely been poor. 

I'd love him to come good, but he's going to have to change something, in order to become a success.  I think he'd have success dropping deep to be honest.  From the little we've seen of him, he seems to do well running with the ball at opponents towards their box - but he doesn't do it enough, he's always on the last man - which is fine - but our opponents often play deep, nullifying space behind.  He can't challenge aerially, he's so lightweight he just doesn't win headers, so don't do that.  

I would agree with you if he was given the licence to „do what he wanted“ in order to find where he could be effective.

But hoofing to him telling the dog to „go fetch“ is setting him up to fail

[sne]

12 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

You could argue that Bruce has finally produced a style of play that suits the team - just look at our recent results - but that Hogan hasn't adapted or made the required grade. I suppose you can criticise Bruce for not being a soothsayer and foreseeing that this would happen but IMO there is no requirement on Bruce to produce a style of play just so Hogan can feel comfortable with it. If he can't deliver what we need, sell and move on.

I agree with this.

On the Hogan thing I think we massively overpaid for a player we didn't know how to utilize, now if this is down to Bruce or the football people I don't know but I still feel it wasn't Bruce who was the driving force to get him here.

Hogan was never going to work as a isolated target man in the Championship, nor would massively more competent players like David Villa, Inzaghi or Sergio Aguero.

Different players for different roles. Jedi can play one role in midfield, but he'd be absolutely useless as a ACM. Just like Hogan could possibly do a job if we played another style and he had another role (I don't rate him as anything special mind).

[Grasshopper]

I‘d like to add a little bit of „FM 1892“ wisdom.

When a manager comes into a club, he has what he has (player pool) if a future Transfer window is 3months away, you have enough time to know what you have and what you want.

Therefore, Buying in players is compareable to piecing a jugsaw puzzle. You dont buy a circle to fit the space of a square. it may have the same mass and you could (if possible) reshape it. But why not just buy a square in the first place? it may even be cheaper

[Demitri_C]

Hogan does need to do more no question, I mean look at the boro goal when he blocked hourihanes goal. the guy is never anywhere close to the ball in the box and the one occasion he is he blocks a bloody goal!

he needs to take his opportunity when given, look at davis he dont score many but he makes such a massive impact in most of our games 

 

 

[matteyp]

Do we have any idea when he'll be available for selection, if only as an impact sub?

[bannedfromHandV]

3 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

?

would you ask a carpenter to do the job of a plumber?

Davis‘s build enables him to challenge for and hold it up. Hogans build is for movement and poaching on loose balls.

By saying Hogan is a flop BECAUSE he cant deal with hoofs I can presume that if we played quick one-twos ball along the ground with the ball played through the channels for Davis to run on to, when you would see him struggle to be effective you‘d also say he‘s a flop?

 

GH, it's got naff all to do with 'dealing with hoofs' - as stats/facts have illustrated we don't actually 'hoof' it as much as you and a selection of others would like the rest of the world to believe.

And irrespective of that, it's not the fact that he can't deal with 'hoofs' that's the issue, it's more worrying when he mis-controls a simple 5 yard pass or the fact that he never looks remotely like scoring a goal or when you forget he's even on the pitch.

I spent a whole day recently pondering our (lack of) options up front and it took hours for me to realise that I hadn't even considered Hogan, I totally forgot he was here, that says it all.

 

I have no agenda against Hogan personally but he has no-one to blame but himself for his failure.

 

Your analogy, as per usual is way off the mark.

We're not asking a "carpenter to do the job of a plumber", that would be akin to asking him to play at centre back.

Adapting style slightly shouldn't be so difficult that it makes you look like a complete fraud of a footballer.

[Grasshopper]

2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

GH, it's got naff all to do with 'dealing with hoofs' - as stats/facts have illustrated we don't actually 'hoof' it as much as you and a selection of others would like the rest of the world to believe.

And irrespective of that, it's not the fact that he can't deal with 'hoofs' that's the issue, it's more worrying when he mis-controls a simple 5 yard pass or the fact that he never looks remotely like scoring a goal or when you forget he's even on the pitch.

I spent a whole day recently pondering our (lack of) options up front and it took hours for me to realise that I hadn't even considered Hogan, I totally forgot he was here, that says it all.

 

I have no agenda against Hogan personally but he has no-one to blame but himself for his failure.

 

Your analogy, as per usual is way off the mark.

We're not asking a "carpenter to do the job of a plumber", that would be akin to asking him to play at centre back.

Adapting style slightly shouldn't be so difficult that it makes you look like a complete fraud of a footballer.

oh Whatever!

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

GH, it's got naff all to do with 'dealing with hoofs' - as stats/facts have illustrated we don't actually 'hoof' it as much as you and a selection of others would like the rest of the world to believe.

And irrespective of that, it's not the fact that he can't deal with 'hoofs' that's the issue, it's more worrying when he mis-controls a simple 5 yard pass or the fact that he never looks remotely like scoring a goal or when you forget he's even on the pitch.

I spent a whole day recently pondering our (lack of) options up front and it took hours for me to realise that I hadn't even considered Hogan, I totally forgot he was here, that says it all.

 

I have no agenda against Hogan personally but he has no-one to blame but himself for his failure.

 

Your analogy, as per usual is way off the mark.

We're not asking a "carpenter to do the job of a plumber", that would be akin to asking him to play at centre back.

Adapting style slightly shouldn't be so difficult that it makes you look like a complete fraud of a footballer.

Looked like one in the Boro game.