Scott Hogan

[Dave J]

2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

GH, it's got naff all to do with 'dealing with hoofs' - as stats/facts have illustrated we don't actually 'hoof' it as much as you and a selection of others would like the rest of the world to believe.

And irrespective of that, it's not the fact that he can't deal with 'hoofs' that's the issue, it's more worrying when he mis-controls a simple 5 yard pass or the fact that he never looks remotely like scoring a goal or when you forget he's even on the pitch.

I spent a whole day recently pondering our (lack of) options up front and it took hours for me to realise that I hadn't even considered Hogan, I totally forgot he was here, that says it all.

 

I have no agenda against Hogan personally but he has no-one to blame but himself for his failure.

 

Your analogy, as per usual is way off the mark.

We're not asking a "carpenter to do the job of a plumber", that would be akin to asking him to play at centre back.

Adapting style slightly shouldn't be so difficult that it makes you look like a complete fraud of a footballer.

For me it’s 50-50 I do agree that Hogan has looked poor but Bruce i’m Afraid has done naff all to try and integrate him into the team - this in my opinion is not right 

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, Dave J said:

For me it’s 50-50 I do agree that Hogan has looked poor but Bruce i’m Afraid has done naff all to try and integrate him into the team - this in my opinion is not right 

It could be argued one has caused the other. However had he taken some of the chances he had had when he should have scored I bet we'd be having a different conversation. 

[briny_ear]

19 minutes ago, Dave J said:

For me it’s 50-50 I do agree that Hogan has looked poor but Bruce i’m Afraid has done naff all to try and integrate him into the team - this in my opinion is not right 

Unless you've been there at Bodymoor observing every training session, I don't think you have any basis to say that.

Why is it so hard to accept that Hogan just hasn't cut it here?

Sadly, this sort of thing happens. Time to sell and move on.

[Dave J]

17 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It could be argued one has caused the other. However had he taken some of the chances he had had when he should have scored I bet we'd be having a different conversation. 

Yes I make you about right - i’ve Felt all along that he will return to the Bees and start banging them in for them.

[Dave J]

2 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Unless you've been there at Bodymoor observing every training session, I don't think you have any basis to say that.

Why is it so hard to accept that Hogan just hasn't cut it here?

Sadly, this sort of thing happens. Time to sell and move on.

I’ve said Hogan has looked poor - there you go ! Will you now acknowledge Bruce has not covered himself in glory either ? And will he admit this if Hogan leaves for half of his signing on fee in the window 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Dave J said:

I’ve said Hogan has looked poor - there you go ! Will you now acknowledge Bruce has not covered himself in glory either ? And will he admit this if Hogan leaves for half of his signing on fee in the window 

as an example- Not sure one of the best coaches in the world Pepe guardiola covered himself in glory with Joe hart either...a coach can only do so much.

Carlton Palmer was having problems getting in at Albion in the early days, until HE Sorted himself out.

The player has a responsibility Dave......The coach is there to help.....but it is intrinsic.

There are elements of the game where service, support and others players do have an effect......but there are other elements, like first touch or decision making has to be the player.

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by TRO

[handsworthvilla]

Seems to me (after a very quick look at his season stats) that he started the first two games of the season, Bruce obviously thought he was part of the reasons behind the disastrous start and he has not started a match since. He has been reduced to substitute cameos desperately trying to make an impression in a limited amount of time, which is always going to be difficult for a player, especially when your confidence is shot. I imagine that his confidence has been destroyed by the fact that even without Kodija he hasn't got a look in from the start of games, and he has two 19 year olds playing up front instead of him. 

There is a good player in there, it just doesn't look like it will work out for him here. He's probably not athletic enough for Bruce (certainly in this league) so I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave soon. It's a shame as I was excited about seeing him play in a 4-4-2 on the shoulder (in the old Michael Owen fashion) but that doesn't seem to be on the cards. 

[bannedfromHandV]

14 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Unless you've been there at Bodymoor observing every training session, I don't think you have any basis to say that.

Why is it so hard to accept that Hogan just hasn't cut it here?

Sadly, this sort of thing happens. Time to sell and move on.

Because it's just another opportunity to snipe at SB

[dn1982]

2 hours ago, handsworthvilla said:

Seems to me (after a very quick look at his season stats) that he started the first two games of the season, Bruce obviously thought he was part of the reasons behind the disastrous start and he has not started a match since. He has been reduced to substitute cameos desperately trying to make an impression in a limited amount of time, which is always going to be difficult for a player, especially when your confidence is shot. I imagine that his confidence has been destroyed by the fact that even without Kodija he hasn't got a look in from the start of games, and he has two 19 year olds playing up front instead of him. 

There is a good player in there, it just doesn't look like it will work out for him here. He's probably not athletic enough for Bruce (certainly in this league) so I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave soon. It's a shame as I was excited about seeing him play in a 4-4-2 on the shoulder (in the old Michael Owen fashion) but that doesn't seem to be on the cards. 

It would’ve been been good to see him play with Keinan. His confidence is obviously shot but I think there’s still a good player in there aswell. 

[striker]

23 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Funny how everyone else has managed to adapt to this plethora of systems.

If a 19 year old kid can adapt from playing non-league football then why can't a £15m player adapt?

I think players are cut far too much slack, this is not a stick to beat SB with, Hogan has to take full responsibility.

Well everyone else didn't adapt to those systems immediately hence the poor run of results and the constant chopping and changing of players.

You could also argue that Hourihane is still being less effective than at his previous club due to being played in a more withdrawn role.

It wasn't difficult for Davis to adapt either was it when you consider he had been playing the same role for the U21s for quite some time prior to breaking into the first team.

Furthermore  I don't agree that Hogan should take full responsibility for his poor performances so far. He simply hasn't been played in a system that benefits his style of play nor given a reasonable amount of games by Bruce to adapt. Consequently his confidence is totally shot.

Bruce has to take a lot of the blame for spending 12m on a player that clearly wasn't going to fit the manager's preferred system.

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by striker

[dn1982]

Fans that say we don’t play hoof ball seem to forget we’ve started playing better with a battering ram upfront. No one says we play long just direct and smashing a ball up to Hogan against a Big centre half doesn’t work. It doesn’t always work with Davis. We aren’t a possesion team and Hogan would probably be better in a 2 instead of playing on his own as he did at Brentford. Ultimately though Bruce bought a player that doesn’t suit his style so something has to give.   

[hippo]

31 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

Fans that say we don’t play hoof ball seem to forget we’ve started playing better with a battering ram upfront. No one says we play long just direct and smashing a ball up to Hogan against a Big centre half doesn’t work. It doesn’t always work with Davis. We aren’t a possesion team and Hogan would probably be better in a 2 instead of playing on his own as he did at Brentford. Ultimately though Bruce bought a player that doesn’t suit his style so something has to give.   

Yeah its been a joy to watch Adomah heading in all those hoof balls.

 

 

[bannedfromHandV]

37 minutes ago, striker said:

Well everyone else didn't adapt to those systems immediately hence the poor run of results and the constant chopping and changing of players.

You could also argue that Hourihane is still being less effective than at his previous club due to being played in a more withdrawn role.

It wasn't difficult for Davis to adapt either was it when you consider he had been playing the same role for the U21s for quite some time prior to breaking into the first team.

Furthermore  I don't agree that Hogan should take full responsibility for his poor performances so far. He simply hasn't been played in a system that benefits his style of play nor given a reasonable amount of games by Bruce to adapt. Consequently his confidence is totally shot.

Bruce has to take a lot of the blame for spending 12m on a player that clearly wasn't going to fit the manager's preferred system.

 

Clearly, with hindsight.

What a wonderful thing hindsight is, validates any opinion.

I disagree with you whole-heartedly, let's just leave it there.

[dn1982]

4 minutes ago, hippo said:

Yeah its been a joy to watch Adomah heading in all those hoof balls.

 

 

Just because we’ve got the Scottish Cafu it’s not like watching Brazil!! 

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Clearly, with hindsight.

What a wonderful thing hindsight is, validates any opinion.

I disagree with you whole-heartedly, let's just leave it there.

Yeah Bruce signed the best striker in the division at the time. I was pretty confident he would score goals. Personally I think his all round game has let him down - his first touch and retention have been diabolical TBH.

Recall the last home game when the defender slipped leaving Adomah 1 on 1 with the keeper. I wouldn't have put any money on hogan scoring that goal

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

Just because we’ve got the Scottish Cafu it’s not like watching Brazil!! 

Wot I meant was that Adomah has been thriving in a team that Hogan floundered in. Adomah doesn't have much aerial presence - so if we are playing the suggested hoofball why is Adomah thriving ?   FFS in under 30 minutes up Front Samba has scored more !  (and no it wasn't a header) 

[dn1982]

45 minutes ago, hippo said:

Wot I meant was that Adomah has been thriving in a team that Hogan floundered in. Adomah doesn't have much aerial presence - so if we are playing the suggested hoofball why is Adomah thriving ?   FFS in under 30 minutes up Front Samba has scored more !  (and no it wasn't a header) 

SO you missed out the whole We look better with Davis upfront but highlighted the hoof ball bit? Then named a left winger to prove a point about a striker not scoring?? How many have our strikers scored.??

[carewjust4u]

29 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

How many have our strikers scored.??

I see what you're saying, but our strikers seem to be playing mostly in the physio room this season.

[vreitti]

So... is Hogan in contention `for Saturday, or still injured?

[striker]

6 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Clearly, with hindsight.

What a wonderful thing hindsight is, validates any opinion.

I disagree with you whole-heartedly, let's just leave it there.

It's nothing to do with hindsight either though is it. You simply don't spend 12m on a player then ask him to play in a totally different way than he's used to and expect him to flourish almost immediately.