Keyblade Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, useless said: The only stats that matter are the results and I think you'll find they're much better when Hourihane starts. I'm not the one that needs to 'come on'. Correlation, causation etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 'Correlation does not imply causation' might sound good, but in this instance it's an empty phrase, if you say it of Hourihane then you can say it about any player. He's started seven of our nine wins this season, and in one of the wins in which he didn't start it was he who came off the bench and won us the match scoring his seventh goal of the season, if that doesn't tell us something then I'm not sure what does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, useless said: if you say it of Hourihane then you can say it about any player. Yes, that's how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Needs to play every game. He’s average but his set pieces and his goals make him worthy of a start ahead of Nakamba or Luis. He’s got a great attitude. I like Connor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 I’ve said it before but he reminds me of Leon Osman at Everton a few years ago. Never quite an established starter and yet a really great player for them to have, scored goals, won them games etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Actually yes it it is, it's very hard, almost impossible to prove that any one player is the difference between winning and not winning, so you have to go with the trends and one common trend is that we win more games when Hourihane starts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, useless said: 'Correlation does not imply causation' might sound good, but in this instance it's an empty phrase, if you say it of Hourihane then you can say it about any player. He's started seven of our nine wins this season, and in one of the wins in which he didn't start it was he who came off the bench and won us the match scoring his seventh goal of the season, if that doesn't tell us something then I'm not sure what does. In this instance, it really is a case of correlation not implying causation. Hourihane has started against: Spurs away L Crewe away (League Cup) W Brighton reserves away (League Cup) W Burnley home D Norwich away W Brighton home W Wolves reserves home (League Cup) W Newcastle home W Man Utd away D Chelsea away L Liverpool u-18s home (League Cup) W Southampton home L With the exception of the Spurs, Man Utd and Chelsea games (where we've come away with 1 point) these have been our easiest fixtures of the season. He's a decent player in the right kind of game, and Smith is mostly using him appropriately. He was very poor in the Southampton game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 The fact that one of our very biggest goal threats is a highly limited, barely premier league calibre midfielder who can't get into the first team week in week out shows why we are very likely to go down this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 With those results you only serve to make my point for me, we've taken eleven points from those fixtures... And the three points we've taken today were only because he came on and scored the winner. Can't believe that even after today there are still people arguing against him. He's not brilliant, but we haven't got much better in midfielder, nor much better than him further forward at scoring goals or providing assits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, useless said: Actually yes it it is, it's very hard, almost impossible to prove that any one player is the difference between winning and not winning, so you have to go with the trends and one common trend is that we win more games when Hourihane starts. Wesley has started every game we won and scored 1/4 of our goals in those games. Obviously that doesn't even begin to tell the story and isn't an argument for his inclusion in the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Looked up for it when he came on. He will have his bad games but he’s a useful player to have in the squad at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 35 minutes ago, useless said: With those results you only serve to make my point for me, we've taken eleven points from those fixtures... And the three points we've taken today were only because he came on and scored the winner. Can't believe that even after today there are still people arguing against him. He's not brilliant, but we haven't got much better in midfielder, nor much better than him further forward at scoring goals or providing assits. I mean if that's how you want to interpret it, fine. The fact that you include the League Cup fixtures against lower league / reserve teams in your argument for Hourihane suggests you're overstating your case. We're not arguing against him at all, but that he shines in certain situations, and not in others. When Smith has tried to play him more regularly against tougher teams, we haven't benefited from his presence at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Sometimes maybe good sometimes maybe shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnock1984 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Has got to play every game! We look more capable of winning games with him in the team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Keyblade said: Wesley has started every game we won and scored 1/4 of our goals in those games. Obviously that doesn't even begin to tell the story and isn't an argument for his inclusion in the team. Well no, but that's not how you read trends at all. Because there's no sample of games where Wesley has not played in to compare, it makes such a statement absolutely meaningless. You want to look at win percentages in games where a player starts and compare them with games where he does not to do it. Conor has a decent amount of both, Wesley has started every PL game so no sample group for games where he does not start. Not saying the idea of correlation does not equal causation is wrong(although it can certainly suggest causation), just that this specific analogy is completely incomparable to the Hourihane point. Edited December 26, 2019 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 It may be a bit brutal but I have zero time for anyone who doesn't see what Conor brings to our team at the moment. Goals, assists, pass completion and a very tidy calm experienced player. Grealish and McGinn ahead of him but no one else can offer as much as he does. Whether that changes in next transfer window remains to be seen. But he's on the teamsheet before Luiz, Nakamba, Lansbury and any of our wingers! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Well no, but that's not how you read trends at all. Because there's no sample of games where Wesley has not played in to compare, it makes such a statement absolutely meaningless. You want to look at win percentages in games where a player starts and compare them with games where he does not to do it. Conor has a decent amount of both, Wesley has started every PL game so no sample group for games where he does not start. Not saying the idea of correlation does not equal causation is wrong(although it can certainly suggest causation), just that this specific analogy is completely incomparable to the Hourihane point. Conor is just 1 player out of 11. We're not even talking about Jack Grealish levels of disparity between his presence and lack of. If you were to try to guess at explaining the numbers, the most likely explanation is that he plays more frequently in the easier games where we have a higher probability of getting results and sits out a lot of the tougher games. He played himself back into the team in those easier games and then summarily went on to remind us why he was sitting out the tougher games in the first place. He has attributes that can be a real weapon when we're on top or against teams where we always have a chance of getting a result, but he's only a single piece of the puzzle, not the sole reason or even a major reason we get good results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 12 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said: It may be a bit brutal but I have zero time for anyone who doesn't see what Conor brings to our team at the moment. Goals, assists, pass completion and a very tidy calm experienced player. Grealish and McGinn ahead of him but no one else can offer as much as he does. Whether that changes in next transfer window remains to be seen. But he's on the teamsheet before Luiz, Nakamba, Lansbury and any of our wingers! I would have Doris the tealady on the team sheet before the wingers.....they really are passengers.....I am amazed he persists with 2 in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddytheVillan Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Honestly the lads rubbish, all he does us score goals, assist goals, pass the ball neatly and a world class free kick. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 I have said it before but if Wesley and Kodjia offer little then we should play Hourihane as a False 9. Maybe his hold up play would be poor but he would get bloody goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts