Gareth Southgate

[Tommo_b]

You just can’t help but feel with a better manager we would still be in the semi finals but played much more entertaining and scored a hell of a lot more goals.

The result last night, I mean what was that, Ukraine didn’t even bother did they?!

Credit where it is due, I did not expect Gareth Southgate to get us this far, so well done.

 

[LondonLax]

Just now, Tommo_b said:

You just can’t help but feel with a better manager we would still be in the semi finals but played much more entertaining and scored a hell of a lot more goals.

The result last night, I mean what was that, Ukraine didn’t even bother did they?!

Credit where it is due, I did not expect Gareth Southgate to get us this far, so well done.

 

You roll the dice again with a ‘better manager’ and you might also come up worse outcome. 

International football is a different beast to club football. If you look around managers who have had success with their national teams quite often have very average CVs at club level. 

The manager gets so little time to prepare with the side that it is very difficult to coach attacking patterns and plays into the team. 

It seems more to be about fostering a positive team collective, something teams like France have failed to do this tournament. 

[Phil Silvers]

1 minute ago, Tommo_b said:

You just can’t help but feel with a better manager we would still be in the semi finals but played much more entertaining and scored a hell of a lot more goals.

The result last night, I mean what was that, Ukraine didn’t even bother did they?!

Credit where it is due, I did not expect Gareth Southgate to get us this far, so well done.

 

I think for the most part, Southgate detractors are obviously happy we are where we are but like you say we aren't doing it in an entertaining way. The Italians are as rock solid and do not concede either but they play with flare.

We have a group of players that could play with the same such flare and that's what we crave. GS is like a glorified Bruce with much much better players at his disposal.

Detractors like myself were not happy with the way he left Villa, we're not happy with the bang average players that GS has blooded long before Jack ever got his chance and I dare any GS fanboy on here to say making him wait was the right thing to do. Jack is worshiped by us, he is a once in a lifetime talent and he's ours, we are desperate for him to play because we know he wants it so badly. Jack must look out on the field and see two DM's against Scotland and Ukraine and RB''s being played as LB's and he must think WTF is this guy doing. GS has cost Jack quite a few caps and still is and that's annoying, it seems unfair to me, look at the Germany game, as bad as they were for an hour we weren't much better, when Jack came on we were transformed, GS has had this at his disposal for at least 3 years, he could have built this squad around him and we could be playing with that flare like the Italians are doing.

One thing I'm not a fan of is the diddly do right dogooders who come on here AFTER a game is WON and chirp on about any negativity being displayed on the match thread when our play is like watching paint dry, its not embarrassing for fans to become emotional during a game, its ok for people to have a different opinion to someone else, its ok for people to make sarcastic tongue in cheek comments when the manager is making obvious mistakes. 

I read a comment on here yesterday about when GS was a player in the England squad which made me stop and think, it went along the lines of how being in the England squad meant more to GS than some of the others because at club level he wasn't in Europe or challenging for honours on a regular basis so it was a big deal for him and that's admirable and I can see now that it does make for a better experience for squad get togethers, more relaxed, they might well be gelling together easier, he has his favorites like any other manager but the camp appears to be a calm settled environment. So well done big nose, you are punching well above and it not be pretty but you are 2 games away from greatness and fair play to you.

[supermon]

I've been critical of him but I think I'm starting to understand his tactics. He obviously plays the team that suits the opposition, rather than the same team over n over, which he can do given the squad depth.

But it takes lot of courage to do that and go against the grain/media/fans narrative.

You can see why Mason Mount starts game, he does add a different dimension to the game. I think he won't hesitate bringing Grealish on if the game needs him.

Also, it's clever to have someone like Henderson on the bench and replace Rice. His immense experience, leadership will help see out games. You then have Maguire, Hendo, Kane as the spine, that's pure guts and steel.

Think Southgate may have got things spot on, let's hope he brings it home!!

[villa4europe]

Part of England's problem for so long was just keeping them all happy and having them want yo be there

Sounds so simple and yet so many managers have failed at it, sometimes our "world class" players just need their bollocks tickled and sent out to play football, not some tactical masterclass

Southgate definitely looks like the players enjoy the tournaments, gives us a punchers chance even if the football is poor 

We can win this... 

Edited July 4, 2021 by villa4europe

[sne]

Sir Gareth Southgate  

Any day now.

[Wurzel]

He is doing what the FA wanted at a fraction of the cost of the foreign managers  before him, and far more successfully than them. He is blessed with the players at his disposal, and he has to leave some players out at times. Is his football exciting? It can be, but during this competition he has been cautious and he has got the results. Maybe if we actually win the competition the team will grow in confidence and at the World Cup they will play with more freedom. Anyway, when he is winning he is going nowhere so there is no point moaning about him he will not be replaced anytime soon. 

[Davkaus]

The transformation from where we were and how the players behaved before he took over is pretty impressive tbh.

You also have to look back at the recent managers we've had. He replaced big Sam ffs. The job was a nightmare and no high quality managers were queueing up to take it

[ozvillafan]

3 hours ago, LondonLax said:

You roll the dice again with a ‘better manager’ and you might also come up worse outcome. 

International football is a different beast to club football. If you look around managers who have had success with their national teams quite often have very average CVs at club level. 

The manager gets so little time to prepare with the side that it is very difficult to coach attacking patterns and plays into the team. 

It seems more to be about fostering a positive team collective, something teams like France have failed to do this tournament. 

I still remember Guus Hiddink talking about tournaments and what's important. It boiled down to this:

1. Fitness

2. Clear and well understood roles

3. Fitness

Everything else was superfluous, as you simply don't have the resources, time nor continuity in international football to do much else.

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

I still remember Guus Hiddink talking about tournaments and what's important. It boiled down to this:

1. Fitness

2. Clear and well understood roles

3. Fitness

Everything else was superfluous, as you simply don't have the resources, time nor continuity in international football to do much else.

On number 2 - Can remember Danny Rose in the dying embers of the Iceland game frantically turning to Roy trying to get instructions as to what to do

It was one of the lowest points of watching England for me

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Always quite liked Southgate, he was a good player too.

Yes I was upset when he left the Villa but you move on.

Southgate and Sir Alf the only two managers to get England to two consecutive Semi-finals. 

[Wurzel]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

The transformation from where we were and how the players behaved before he took over is pretty impressive tbh.

You also have to look back at the recent managers we've had. He replaced big Sam ffs. The job was a nightmare and no high quality managers were queueing up to take it

I think this is an important point. International football is not as important these days. Club football is way more important and money making than knock out international competitions. This is shown in the constant battle between FIFA and UEFA. I feel it as a fan, back in 96 I was all wrapped up in the hype of England, last night I just kind of went "yep we got through", and if we lose it wouldn't really bother me, if we win then great, but it nothing compared to the rush I will get when Villa start lifting cups again, nowhere near.

[Zatman]

I dont think Southgate is a great manager and his football isnt entertaining but he has done a good job for England and could easily take the England job for the next decade. He has made England difficult to break down which wins tournaments but he still lacks the tactical skills for me.

Would be interesting if Denmark scored first just to see how England/Southgate react

[Davkaus]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

 

Would be interesting if Denmark scored first just to see how England/Southgate react

At this point, I'm fairly certain England will never concede another goal.

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

At this point, I'm fairly certain England will never concede another goal.

Pickford was trying his best in the 2nd half yesterday  

[VillaChris]

6 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

You just can’t help but feel with a better manager we would still be in the semi finals but played much more entertaining and scored a hell of a lot more goals.

The result last night, I mean what was that, Ukraine didn’t even bother did they?!

Credit where it is due, I did not expect Gareth Southgate to get us this far, so well done.

 

Just had a look back....6 knock out goals scored for England so far in knock outs.

Under the three QFs under Sven it was 4 goals scored in 2002 and 1 in 2006. Euro 96 had just one goal in the two games and Italia 90 had England scoring 5 goals in the 3 knock out games with a couple of those being Lineker pens v Cameroon.

Lucky to run into Ukraine of course who had worst defence of any team in QF but England had excellent attacks before yet found scoring very difficult in KO round as it should be.

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, villa4europe said:

On number 2 - Can remember Danny Rose in the dying embers of the Iceland game frantically turning to Roy trying to get instructions as to what to do

It was one of the lowest points of watching England for me

Fitness is also even bigger factor this time. This time last year final weeks of the prem season and other major euro leagues were being played so really everyone in tournament has been playing for over a year now non stop unless injured.

For so long England looked spent physically at QF stages of tournaments but now to me they look one of the fresher teams out there. And for all the disagreement loads of the flair players have hardly played much so will remain pretty fresh for potentially final two matches.

Compare that to France having Dembele and Coman pull up with injuries that ruled them out of the tournament if France had won and Belgium had their issues after Portugal win so that's another little nudge in England's direction this time I think.

Edited July 4, 2021 by VillaChris

[markavfc40]

I don't know what to make of Southgate as a manager. In terms of a man I think he conducts himself really well and is a credit to England.

In terms of how good a manager he is then I think given the talent he has at his disposal you'd be hard pushed not to do well. You could pick two completely different teams and still put an excellent side out. 

On the face of it getting to two semis is a great achievement but scratch just beneath the surface of that headline and you'll see the highest rank side they have beaten getting there is the currently 12th ranked side in the world in Germany who by their standards are a pretty poor side. 

Denmark are a tougher test in the semis and then if they get to the final Italy or Spain, especially Italy, will be a really tough test similar to when we faced a very good Croatia side in the world cup semis and were well beaten. 

I think therefore given the squad we have and who we have faced getting to the semi final is not a great achievement. Adding Denmark to who we have got past to get to the final again for me would not be a great achievement. Win it and even someone like me who is sceptical about how good a manager Southgate is would have to acknowledge he will have done a great job and would go from someone I currently see as more a lucky manager to being a good one. Certainly at managing a national side although I still wouldn't want him anywhere near the Villa job as building a team and managing an exceptional group of players at International level are two completely different things.

Edited July 4, 2021 by markavfc40

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Always quite liked Southgate, he was a good player too.

Yes I was upset when he left the Villa but you move on.

Southgate and Sir Alf the only two managers to get England to two consecutive Semi-finals. 

Let's be honest, as annoying as it was to see him move to Boro, he was bang on calling out our lack of ambition just after losing that dammed 2000 cup final.

That defeat marked our decline from established top 6 club to just treading water for years until the Lerner takeover and getting back in top 6 for a few years with promise of more.

Think Chelsea came in for him that summer but they were only offering 4-5m, he played out the next season professionally and then left for Boro in 2001.

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, Wurzel said:

I think this is an important point. International football is not as important these days. Club football is way more important and money making than knock out international competitions. This is shown in the constant battle between FIFA and UEFA. I feel it as a fan, back in 96 I was all wrapped up in the hype of England, last night I just kind of went "yep we got through", and if we lose it wouldn't really bother me, if we win then great, but it nothing compared to the rush I will get when Villa start lifting cups again, nowhere near.

It's still important for many players. Just look at Bale and Ramsey and those two are at two of the biggest clubs in world football. South American players do the 16-20 hour flights every few months without issue as they love playing in whatever tournament or qualifier and all the major players have 100 + caps.

England during golden generation era had so many with opposite attitude, Scholes retiring at 29, Carrick admitting in interview at end of his career he was hoping not to be called up at certain stages and you suspect Gerrard and Lampard hated playing at times given all the stick they took.

There's certainly something in making it into a club atmosphere at training club and also having more trust between players and journalists.

Think St Georges Park played a big part aswell. Not sure how long it's been open now but everyone was calling for years for England to have a similar national training centre like France have had for decades and it's clearly a top class facility.

Edited July 4, 2021 by VillaChris