Genie Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) Gareth is beating whats in front of him and you can’t ask for much more than that. He does seem to be amazingly fortunate with the draws though. Would we have beaten a Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Italy, France in the first knockout round? Would he be looked down upon for going out so early? A lot of the difference between Gareth and those managers that came before is how far into the tournament’s it was before he played a top team. Edited July 10, 2021 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezzaleed Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Genie said: Gareth is beating whats in front of him and you can’t ask for much more than that. He does seem to be amazingly fortunate with the draws though. Would we have beaten a Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Italy, France in the first knockout round? Would he be looked down upon for going out so early? A lot of the difference between Gareth and those managers that came before is how far into the tournament’s it was before he played a top team. apparently the draw doesn't matter. We'd have beaten anyone anyway according to Southgate with the two best teams in the final. Italy doing a job on Belgium and Spain is irrelevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, tezzaleed said: apparently the draw doesn't matter. We'd have beaten anyone anyway according to Southgate with the two best teams in the final. Italy doing a job on Belgium and Spain is irrelevant. People judge the manager on how far they go in the competition rather than who they’ve played / beaten. England could lose to Italy yet Gareth will be a hero and Martinez a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 The salt. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezzaleed Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Genie said: People judge the manager on how far they go in the competition rather than who they’ve played / beaten. England could lose to Italy yet Gareth will be a hero and Martinez a joke. yep totally agree. Still I suppose luck is all part of football and you'd take a lucky average manager over a good unlucky one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, tezzaleed said: yep totally agree. Still I suppose luck is all part of football and you'd take a lucky average manager over a good unlucky one. Back to back extremely favourable tournament draws is the stuff of dreams. Saying that, others have come unstuck against weaker opposition so he certainly deserves some credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rino8 Posted July 10, 2021 Visiting Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Genie said: Gareth is beating whats in front of him and you can’t ask for much more than that. He does seem to be amazingly fortunate with the draws though. Would we have beaten a Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Italy, France in the first knockout round? Would he be looked down upon for going out so early? A lot of the difference between Gareth and those managers that came before is how far into the tournament’s it was before he played a top team. We did beat a Germany that could have put 15 past Portugal. Football isn't as straight forward as all this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezzaleed Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, Rino8 said: We did beat a Germany that could have put 15 past Portugal. Football isn't as straight forward as all this. yep agree you'd put Germany in the top 6 or 7 teams Denmark are decent as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, tezzaleed said: yep agree you'd put Germany in the top 6 or 7 teams Denmark are decent as well. The only shit team they played was Scotland, Ukraine were exhausted after the Sweden game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Genuinely interested to hear from any Danes / people living in Denmark whether all the talk among Danish football fans was over them 'not beating anyone decent' before the England game, or if they were just enjoying their progress for what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Its the best England team I have seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Genuinely interested to hear from any Danes / people living in Denmark whether all the talk among Danish football fans was over them 'not beating anyone decent' before the England game, or if they were just enjoying their progress for what it was. I think that’s a very difficult comparison to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 29 minutes ago, El Zen said: I think that’s a very difficult comparison to make. Maybe. But I am genuinely curious whether fans in other countries beat themselves up over this, or whether this is a uniquely or predominantly English thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted July 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Maybe. But I am genuinely curious whether fans in other countries beat themselves up over this, or whether this is a uniquely or predominantly English thing. Tin hat on, but there's (IMO) a certain amount of quite a lot of people having dug a hole for themselves and just not being willing to climb out of it. All the Southgate's crap, he doesn't know what he's doing, he hates Jack... Style of play criticism - fair enough if it doesn't float your boat, but the rest of it is (mostly) how can I put this politely er, "people doing wrong opinions on the internet" And before anyone points out I'm a pompous arse, sure, absolutely, and yes, I do wrong opinions on the internet too.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, blandy said: Tin hat on, but there's (IMO) a certain amount of quite a lot of people having dug a hole for themselves and just not being willing to climb out of it. All the Southgate's crap, he doesn't know what he's doing, he hates Jack... Style of play criticism - fair enough if it doesn't float your boat, but the rest of it is (mostly) how can I put this politely er, "people doing wrong opinions on the internet" And before anyone points out I'm a pompous arse, sure, absolutely, and yes, I do wrong opinions on the internet too.. I think that's very true, and that this is not one of your Wrong Opinions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 I'll hold my hands up and admit I was wrong, I've wanted him sacked many times over, and if he was the manager at Villa, I'd find it very difficult to summon the motivation to attend any games. His approach to games bores me to tears. But I never expected him to get us to a final, and I'd have discounted it as a possibility before the tournament. There's been a fairly easy run, and I'm still not a fan of his brand of football, but there's no dobut he should be taking us to another world cup, and I'll be cheering as loudly as anyone if we win the thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 10, 2021 Moderator Share Posted July 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Davkaus said: if he was the manager at Villa, I'd find it very difficult to summon the motivation to attend any games. His approach to games bores me to tears. I think there's such a massive difference between club football, which is (obviously) very much league based and tournament and knockout international football. He's nigh on perfect for international football and hopefully will get better. His kind of job description has been exceeded, I think. If you look at what he's done and been involved with, with England, and how it's worked out, I'd be amazed if a fair minded person wasn't impressed. He fought to have St George's park established, resigned when the FA wouldn't do it. Then when they changed their minds he went back, did the Under 21s and did a good job. He has developed an ethos and team spirit and got players wanting to play for England, when previously they didn't. He's got rid of the club cliques. He's binned out "names" on form - got rid of Rooney, for example. The club academy systems that are producing all these exciting forwards and ball playing defenders and midfielders - again he was involved in setting all that up. And the National men's team results have been consistently improving, particularly when compared with his predecessors - McLaren, Fat Sam, Roy Hodgson. The attention to detail and the going and listening to coaches from other sports to take on ideas, has been well worth it. He selects tactics for games, changes them within games, uses subs well...and wins. Whatever happens on Sunday he's got a monkey off our backs. I mean, I'd start with Jack on Sunday, but then again Southgate has used him more sparingly, which is better for Jack's well being next season - he looks after players, genuinely, as people and not just with a short term "win this game, stuff the consequences" mindset. And when he speaks to the press or TV he says the right thing, he's honest, intelligent and decent. There's a heck of a lot in amongst that that would transfer well to club football, but there are still areas - transfers, contracts, weekly, or twice weekly games, consistent long hours, constant scrutiny, experience and so on which are things where he doesn't have the same kind of merit points as he's earned through the various England roles. I've always liked him, since he came to Villa and since he was so clearly on the side of the fans with regards to the club's then lack of ambition and Ellis's penny pinching and small time, small minded, ways. The way he left and went to Boro was messy, and I get that people maybe resent that, but tbh he was pretty much forced into it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted July 10, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2021 I don't like Southgate, I think he's a very lucky manager with a phenomenal squad at his disposal and he should be using it better then he is. Which upsets me as I loved him as a kid. But I'll hold my hand up. He's done a lot better then I thought he would and it's fantastic that England are in a first final for 55 years. I still think he'll get it wrong against Italy and well be smashed but a large part of me is hoping I'm wrong and if I am I'll admit it and say he deserves all the praise coming his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 48 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Maybe. But I am genuinely curious whether fans in other countries beat themselves up over this, or whether this is a uniquely or predominantly English thing. I think it’s less likely to be an issue when your country is a massive underdog and overcoming a very traumatic life-threatening incident involving your star player. I also think the English national team, for different reasons, is more inherently divisive among the English than other national teams are in their respective populations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, El Zen said: I think it’s less likely to be an issue when your country is a massive underdog and overcoming a very traumatic life-threatening incident involving your star player. I also think the English national team, for different reasons, is more inherently divisive among the English than other national teams are in their respective populations. Point taken re Denmark, but I would not have said they were underdogs in any of the knock-out games they played until they played England; that's why I chose them. I expected them to beat both Wales and Czech Republic, and I feel that was the consensus at the time. But if you don't want me to ask this about Denmark, then let me broaden it out to ask any non-English people whether this is a line of criticism that they have experienced. Edited July 10, 2021 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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