BOF Posted August 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 14, 2017 The writing's on the wall now. I can't imagine he'd be allowed to continue in this vein. It's still early, but they'll want some encouragement very soon. Drawing with Hull on the opening day is fair enough but getting tonked by Cardiff is not. If we were to lose heavily to Reading tomorrow (which is scarily likely) then the manner of the defeats could be his undoing. If you're there or thereabouts in matches and playing well enough then you can forgive some short term form-finding losses. But if you're being blown away then it can't continue. Our next 4 league games are @ Reading, home to Norwich, @ Bristol City & home to Brentford. We'd need to be picking up 9pts from those, meaning a total of 10pts from 6 games. At this moment that's not looking likely. Even though 3 of them have started poorly, I'd say that counts for very little. If we get to game 6 and we're still languishing at the bottom end and not looking like a winning team then I'd say he's gone at that point. Barring some absolute hidings, I don't think we should get rid any sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: I hear it's not just the fans who have massive doubts. This isn't going to run and run. My sense is that he is very close to the door Where's this come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 minute ago, BOF said: The writing's on the wall now. I can't imagine he'd be allowed to continue in this vein. It's still early, but they'll want some encouragement very soon. Drawing with Hull on the opening day is fair enough but getting tonked by Cardiff is not. If we were to lose heavily to Reading tomorrow (which is scarily likely) then the manner of the defeats could be his undoing. If you're there or thereabouts in matches and playing well enough then you can forgive some short term form-finding losses. But if you're being blown away then it can't continue. Our next 4 league games are @ Reading, home to Norwich, @ Bristol City & home to Brentford. We'd need to be picking up 9pts from those, meaning a total of 10pts from 6 games. At this moment that's not looking likely. Even though 3 of them have started poorly, I'd say that counts for very little. If we get to game 6 and we're still languishing at the bottom end and not looking like a winning team then I'd say he's gone at that point. Barring some absolute hidings, I don't think we should get rid any sooner. He's one hiding away imo. If that comes to tomorrow, he'll be gone. I totally agree about the manner, that's going to be key, even if we win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted August 14, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 14, 2017 I have now had a chance to watch the "highlights" of the match and listened to Bruce's post match interview. That was a woeful performance and seriously worrying and sadly it is the same problems have continued from last season and 2nd half of Hull. However, if anybody thinks that Bruce is walking or given some time to turn it around after that interview would be sadly mistaken. I took his comments as "that was the worst performance and they need to do better" rather than he doesn't think he can do it. If you put it in context of when it was said then I don't think he truly meant it as an admission that it was beyond him. Indeed, later on in the interview he states if carries on for next 10 matches then he's in trouble. He is in the mindset that he needs to sort it or he's out, rather than he is about to be out of the door. Sure, I am still trying to figure out his "tactics" but I am just utterly bewildered as to how this same person got a team (arguably weaker) promoted only 2 seasons ago?! We are just completely inept without Kodjia at the moment and I am still at a loss as to why. Whilst Bruce is the obvious answer, to be fair to him, these problems have been a part of Villa for a long time. He hasn't helped, don't get me wrong, but are we certain he is the problem? I, along with many, many others, thought he was the best option for us last year. It is looking more likely that he will be added to the long list of failed managers. And yes, the pressure will increase exponentially if we lose tomorrow and lose in the same manner we did at the weekend. I just hope they don't play Bacuna tomorrow because I know exactly what will happen... However, whilst people can have their misgivings of Bruce, to suggest that the best thing would be to lose to Reading are really cutting their nose off to spite their face. Whilst you can be anti-Bruce, remember that it's a nice feeling when Villa actually win (it's been a while I know!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 18 minutes ago, briny_ear said: So as well as a new manager we need a new squad then? One where everyone is selected to suit the same "Playing style"? Think you can probably dream on . No not really. Pick a style, strategy and formation and play the players that suit it. He changes his team far too often and changes his tactics far too often. Well to be honest he doesnt have any. You could easily pick the following team and play some pretty good football with the right coaching. Diamond formation Johnstone Bree, Chester, Terry, RDL Lansbury, Hourihane, Onomah, O'Hare (Grealish when fit) Hogan, Kodjia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Hi Just read that Guardian article again (posted in full elsewhere)....snippets of it below.....it makes scary reading to be honest.. "Shortly after taking charge at Sunderland Steve Bruce was asked if he had considered experimenting with a Christmas Tree formation. "I'm not really into tactics," he replied. At the time that response was easy to interpret as a deliberately flippant or, perhaps, a self-deprecating means of avoiding answering the question. As the seasons passed, though, the suspicion grew that the former Manchester United captain had simply been honest." "Arguably one of the principal reasons Bruce is no longer in charge at the Stadium of Light concerns his apparent inability to tweak formations or tactics during matches. Whenever a rival manager re-configured his system mid-game, Bruce invariably failed to come up with a countermeasure." "If he failed to cut it as a tactician, the 50-year-old did not seem much of a strategist either. Including loans, 30 players were signed – several of whom have subsequently been moved on – during Bruce's two-and-a-half years on Wearside. That represents an unsettling "churn" factor and hardly proved conducive to developing either a clear playing philosophy or strong team spirit." "Always rather amorphous, if not downright scrappy, Sunderland's high-tempo style lacked creativity, not to mention control, in central midfield. Unable to dictate play, the team frequently failed to press home early advantages." 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 minute ago, omariqy said: No not really. Pick a style, strategy and formation and play the players that suit it. He changes his team far too often and changes his tactics far too often. Well to be honest he doesnt have any. You could easily pick the following team and play some pretty good football with the right coaching. Diamond formation Johnstone Bree, Chester, Terry, RDL Lansbury, Hourihane, Onomah, O'Hare (Grealish when fit) Hogan, Kodjia This is pretty much it. Just **** attack. I remember Big Ron in a programme said 'I tell the players to have no fear, just attack and express themselves. I'll never tell them off for trying to score.' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 21 minutes ago, Mjvilla said: Where's this come from? his own mouth to be honest. the spiel about not being able to do it, or fixing our away form. he knows he can't do anything here. Regardless of the result on tuesday I wouldn't be surprised if he quit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Not to defend Bruce - but we were so bad at Cardiff I would suggest the possibility that all is not well behind the scenes. Thats a worry because such issues will be there for whoever comes after SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Where the hell does he keep getting this "6 months I've been here " from ? I know it's almost irrelevant but he just sounds totally lost . Edited August 14, 2017 by terrytini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 psychology of numbers - increase or decrease to help your argument, see any number of debates in the past about the cost of transfer fees depending on whether the player was liked or loathed! Petrov used to be either £6m or £10m at times, and now Bruce has also forgotten 4 months from his record - if only we could do the same Steve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 minute ago, hippo said: Not to defend Bruce - but we were so bad at Cardiff I would suggest the possibility that all is not well behind the scenes. Thats a worry because such issues will be there for whoever comes after SB. Don't agree. Cardiff was just a worse version of what we've seen for nearly a year.....it's just that there are no excuses left now. It was the culmination of his entire tenure here and won't be repeated if we get the right man in next, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, terrytini said: Where the hell does he keep getting this "6 months I've been here " from ? I know it's almost irrelevant but he just sounds totally lost . Is that not an old interview. He joined last October ..10 months ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Just now, hippo said: Is that not an old interview. He joined last October ..10 months ago.... He said it the other night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lord Willard said: If he isn't a coaching manager, nor a tactical manager, what does he actually do? Eats kebabs? *Edit* damn beaten to it. Edited August 14, 2017 by TheStagMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, hippo said: Not to defend Bruce - but we were so bad at Cardiff I would suggest the possibility that all is not well behind the scenes. Thats a worry because such issues will be there for whoever comes after SB. No don't agree with that. I think the main reason behind this performance is Bruce, his coaches and complete lack of positive impact both have had on the squad. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 13 minutes ago, delboy54 said: Hi Just read that Guardian article again (posted in full elsewhere)....snippets of it below.....it makes scary reading to be honest.. "Shortly after taking charge at Sunderland Steve Bruce was asked if he had considered experimenting with a Christmas Tree formation. "I'm not really into tactics," he replied. At the time that response was easy to interpret as a deliberately flippant or, perhaps, a self-deprecating means of avoiding answering the question. As the seasons passed, though, the suspicion grew that the former Manchester United captain had simply been honest." "Arguably one of the principal reasons Bruce is no longer in charge at the Stadium of Light concerns his apparent inability to tweak formations or tactics during matches. Whenever a rival manager re-configured his system mid-game, Bruce invariably failed to come up with a countermeasure." "If he failed to cut it as a tactician, the 50-year-old did not seem much of a strategist either. Including loans, 30 players were signed – several of whom have subsequently been moved on – during Bruce's two-and-a-half years on Wearside. That represents an unsettling "churn" factor and hardly proved conducive to developing either a clear playing philosophy or strong team spirit." "Always rather amorphous, if not downright scrappy, Sunderland's high-tempo style lacked creativity, not to mention control, in central midfield. Unable to dictate play, the team frequently failed to press home early advantages." Yes, sounds very familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, terrytini said: He said it the other night yes and even accounting for the break between seasons he still cant count. What does that say about our manager. Like chalk and cheese with former manager Graham taylor who was articulate and intelligent Edited August 14, 2017 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, DCJonah said: No don't agree with that. I think the main reason behind this performance is Bruce, his coaches and complete lack of positive impact both have had on the squad. Of the course the question remains did Bruce appoint colin calderwood. It seems very strange that bruce would poach a guy from another club with whom he hasn't worked with before. ......and it all went shite from his appointment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, hippo said: Of the course the question remains did Bruce appoint colin calderwood. It seems very strange that bruce would poach a guy from another club with whom he hasn't worked with before. ......and it all went shite from his appointment... more down to the ACON I think. When Kodjia returned we started to win games again. One man team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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