Steve Bruce

[Villan_of_oz]

29 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

His exact quote was 

“I’d love to be signing 26-year-olds. People are saying we’re Dad’s Army. But players are £15m to sign and fortunes in wages. We have had to be a bit shrewd.”

After signing Terry, Whelan and Samba he's now coming out with this after 2 losses. 

 

Very disappointing the way things are headed, the writing was on the wall I guess. Silly me for having hope. 

GTFO now Bruce

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, Czechlad said:

We are kind of a joke run club if we sack our manager only 3 matches into a season

A joke to who?

Frankly I don't care what we look like, we need to get out of this league. 

You think we'd be a joke run club, see what we will be like in a few years spent in the championship when FFP really kicks in thanks to no parachute payments. 

[TrentVilla]

5 minutes ago, Czechlad said:

We are kind of a joke run club if we sack our manager only 3 matches into a season

We've been a joke for fast approaching 10 years now, only people have stopped laughing and now just feel sorry for us.

Sooner or later we need to start moving forward, its abundantly clear (to me at least) that that won't happen under Bruce.

We desperately need to go up this season, that is all I care about, I couldn't care less what others think about the club. If sacking Bruce after 2 or 3 games gives us a better chance of that then I'm perfectly okay with it. And yes, I accept that change doesn't bring any guarantee's but neither does ignoring obvious issues and hoping something changes.

[AshVilla]

27 minutes ago, Czechlad said:

We are kind of a joke run club if we sack our manager only 3 matches into a season

It's almost as funny as being favourites for promotion before the season starts with the bookies with one of the strongest teams in the division then playing like complete and clowns in the opening two games with your manager then mouthing off to the press throwing in the towel after two matches saying "Hopefully" we will be challenging for promotion.

There can be no hopefully about it.

No promotion this season and we are ****.

He should have gone at the end of last season which would have been the perfect time to get rid of him then we wouldn't be talking right now about sacking him after 3 games.

We have Wyness and co to thank for backing him and those who were deluded enough to think a preseason was all that was required for us to kick on.

The footballing deficiencies last season were glaringly obvious and plain to see and without Kodija playing to bail him out he's quickly become unstuck surprise surprise.

Edited August 14, 2017 by AshVilla

[MikeMcKenna]

5 minutes ago, Czechlad said:

We are kind of a joke run club if we sack our manager only 3 matches into a season

People are not just judging him on this season. Last season we had a couple of good runs interspersed with dire spells of absolutely crap. Our play was rarely convincing and this was directly down to Bruce. The better football even at VP was invariably played by the opposition. 

[SuffolkVillan]

15 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Thanks for posting, I'd not seen that.

I'm aware I've already been quite critical of recent comments/interviews with Bruce so I'm aware some will see it as me just jumping on anything he says but once again I take issue with this.

The comments re spending millions frankly annoy me, I'd be interested to know how much Warnock has spent in the job at Cardiff.

But leaving that aside, the main point of the article is the culture thing.

Now I actually agree with him, there is an issue with this and its been there for far too long but I think he is on dangerous ground trying to use it as an excuse, which I think he is doing, for a number of reasons.

First, despite his claims re 6 months he has been here for 10 months, that might not be enough to change a clubs culture but it should be enough to make some sort of impact upon it. He has been afforded the opportunity, despite his recent bleating about financial restrictions, to bring in what 12 or 13 new players. Given that number of new arrivals, isn't it justified to think that we should be seeing some evidence of an improvement in this cultural issue?

Yet here we have Bruce saying that the basics still aren't there. Well hang on a moment Bruce, I'm looking at you here fella.

Here he is saying to paraphrase 'the players aren't bothered enough when we lose', well hang on a moment if this is such an issue how does his stance with Gabby make sense? Now I've not got a massive issue with what he has done with Gabby but if one player really hasn't been bothered enough over the last couple of years its Gabby. So what message is Bruce giving out to the dressing room by bring Gabby back? It is a bit contradictory to this notion of a cultural problem is it not.

Bruce is a manager who by his own admission doesn't place a great deal of store in tactics, so given that and his admission that he can't get the culture / attitude right (despite bringing in 12 / 13 players) then what exactly does he have left to offer?

He is right the team are fragile, there is no confidence at all in them as individuals or as units or a team. That in part is because the results are poor, its in part because we never retain the bloody ball which is in part a reason for the poor results. To quote Bruce out of context, the basics simply aren't there. It doesn't help that 10 months in the players like the fans probably haven't a clue what formation Bruce wants to play.

How we are playing has been picked apart many times so I won't do so again but Bruce needs to look at himself a little more.

Part of the reason we don't come back in games is that so frequently we aren't in them in the first place. We have little possession, we don't retain the ball, we don't put sides under sustained pressure, we don't create chances because we've no attacking threat unless Kodjia is on one. We try to pinch games 1-0 but we are pretty poor at doing it.

When we go behind we don't have enough in our game to fight back, that to me is more to do with tactics and management than it is heart, even if I concede heart is at times an issue. Last season he told us the players weren't fit enough, this season its heart.

The players aren't above blame, far from it but I once again come back to Bruce. He says it doesn't mean enough when we lose, well I'm sorry he is the manager and that is on him.

If this is an issue, he needs to set expectations yet instead he down plays them. He offers excuses about Grealish, about FFP and talks about hoping to be in the mix. If you give players a whiff of an excuse, some will take it especially those with poor motivation which he seems to be saying he has, so what the hell are you playing at Bruce with the saying this stuff.

Think back to O'Neill, we had issues when he arrived not dissimilar to those Bruce is alluding to, well O'Neill set the tone. He set the standards and people met them or they bloody knew it, he didn't offer excuses to anyone. It didn't take him 10 months before seeing 'gimpses' of improvement. Martin O'Neill had tactics, limited though they were, he had a way he wanted to play and it was effective (to a point) because everyone knew what it was and were signed to fit it. But Bruce isn't really into tactics.

I see what he is trying to do with these comments, he is trying to buy more time or defend his performance should more time not be forthcoming. What I suspect he is actually doing is alienating some of the players in the dressing room or may in some cases have questionable attitudes but are also I'd imagine seriously questioning Bruce's own contribution.

Personally when I start seeing this sort of stuff I always think a parting of the ways is both inevitable and imminent, right now sadly, I really hope this is the case.

 

 

I wish I'd posted this bang on!

[peterms]

11 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

But leaving that aside, the main point of the article is the culture thing.

Now I actually agree with him, there is an issue with this and its been there for far too long but I think he is on dangerous ground trying to use it as an excuse, which I think he is doing, for a number of reasons.

He may be, but it may also be a real issue, which will challenge any manager.

12 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

. So what message is Bruce giving out to the dressing room by bring Gabby back? It is a bit contradictory to this notion of a cultural problem is it not.

Yes, I don't think he claims to have solved it, and I suspect he doesn't see when he may be adding to it.  But the key point is not about Bruce, but rather about whether there is a culture problem at the club.  Sounds to me like there may be.

13 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

He is right the team are fragile, there is no confidence at all in them as individuals or as units or a team. That in part is because the results are poor, its in part because we never retain the bloody ball which is in part a reason for the poor results. To quote Bruce out of context, the basics simply aren't there.

Fragile is a word which many of us have used to describe performances over several years.  It didn't start with Bruce and he hasnt solved it.

I agree he should go.  I just think that doesn't preclude recognising that there are some problems which have outlived several managers, and which may not easily be resolved.

 

[TrentVilla]

5 minutes ago, peterms said:

He may be, but it may also be a real issue, which will challenge any manager.

Yes, I don't think he claims to have solved it, and I suspect he doesn't see when he may be adding to it.  But the key point is not about Bruce, but rather about whether there is a culture problem at the club.  Sounds to me like there may be.

Fragile is a word which many of us have used to describe performances over several years.  It didn't start with Bruce and he hasnt solved it.

I agree he should go.  I just think that doesn't preclude recognising that there are some problems which have outlived several managers, and which may not easily be resolved.

 

I agree on all points.

Just to add though, only 3 of the 11 players who started on Saturday pre-date Bruce.

 

[peterms]

6 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I agree on all points.

Just to add though, only 3 of the 11 players who started on Saturday pre-date Bruce.

 

Yes, I don't seek to defend him.  Didn't want him, thought it was a bad decision by Xia, won't be sorry to see him go.

But some of the things he says may be valid criticisms,  all fhe same.

[Mjvilla]

4 minutes ago, peterms said:

He may be, but it may also be a real issue, which will challenge any manager.

Yes, I don't think he claims to have solved it, and I suspect he doesn't see when he may be adding to it.  But the key point is not about Bruce, but rather about whether there is a culture problem at the club.  Sounds to me like there may be.

Fragile is a word which many of us have used to describe performances over several years.  It didn't start with Bruce and he hasnt solved it.

I agree he should go.  I just think that doesn't preclude recognising that there are some problems which have outlived several managers, and which may not easily be resolved.

 

On the fragility thing, we have been for a long time yes, and the only way to overcome that is by winning games and then when you get on a winning streak, take the shackles off the players and let them express themselves. We got a decent run under Bruce but he didn't capitalise on it. He missed his chance. In my opinion. He carried on negatively trying to pick up a result. 

I was all for giving Bruce time (as Trent will tell you), but Saturday really rang alarm bells for me. It was horrendous. And his comments are that of a broken man. He's a 'we go again' away from making me rip my own ears off. 

Fair play to those like GH and Trent that called it. I wanted Bruce to succeed, I wanted him to have time because that's what I thought he needed. He doesn't. He's proving himself right now.

Bruce out

[TrentVilla]

2 minutes ago, peterms said:

Yes, I don't seek to defend him.  Didn't want him, thought it was a bad decision by Xia, won't be sorry to see him go.

But some of the things he says may be valid criticisms,  all fhe same.

Oh I know you don't, not interpreting it as you doing so.

I just struggle a little with the idea that the culture of the club is the issue given as I said previously the side on Sat was predominantly signed by him.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

His exact quote was 

“I’d love to be signing 26-year-olds. People are saying we’re Dad’s Army. But players are £15m to sign and fortunes in wages. We have had to be a bit shrewd.”

After signing Terry, Whelan and Samba he's now coming out with this after 2 losses. 

 

Incredible.

I would say it sounds familiar. But it sounds even worse than some of our previous dead men walking. Especially given the circumstances!

Would have lost all my respect if I was Xia.

Then again, they have probably been waiting for him to hang himself as intimated!

Edited August 14, 2017 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[MikeMcKenna]

New manager, new owner, new players, new coaches. Imho it is nothing to do with an innate AVFC cultural issue. On paper we have one of the best squads in the Championship but the last 10 months has proved we have a manager who doesn't know how to get the best out of them. Xia has invested but via the wrong manager. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, andym said:

Another one in the ever lengthening list of excuses from Bruce. I'm fed up of hearing that it doesn't mean enough to the players when they get beat, that players can't deal with the pressure of being at such a big club etc etc. I would say the majority of players don't like getting beat, they don't get to the top of the professional game by accepting losing, and by not being able to handle pressure.

Its the same when i hear some people say because our players are on big wages at a big club they don't care as much as players at these other clubs who keep beating us, that they don't 'fight for the shirt as much'. That imo is bollocks, Cardiff City players for example don't care anymore about that club than our players about ours. It's still just a job to them, and they would jump ship at the slightest opportunity of more money or a bigger stage. 

We keep getting beat because the players are not being put into the best position to win games, not because they are trying less than the opposition. 9 times out of 10 a team better set up and better drilled is going to beat a team who 'have desire' but no game plan. Look at the Cardiff game, we didn't lose because Cardiff 'wanted it more', we lost because Warnock completely did Bruce tactically, exploiting our lack of pace and in particular our weakness down our right.

From what I read......Zahore just bullied Chester and to some degree Terry.     Laing just ran Hutton ragged.

This is not me defending Bruce.....but that to me sounds like players not coping ?......That is still his responsibility too yes....but not quite the same as set up or game plan and what are these best positions, it doesn't matter how you are set up.....players should not get bullied.

We cannot be serving up stuff like that.

I have no idea who we should look to, to replace Bruce.....but I have little confidence it will change quickly.....But equally I am not saying these things can go on unchecked either.

I feel like a man on top of a burning building, do I jump or stay.....I have no idea whats right or wrong anymore with our lot.....perhaps a win might help?

Andy, your points about Warnock are confusing, many on her baulked when his name was mentioned after RDM.....now he is a master tactician.

Edited August 14, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

If we have players who keep getting beaten for pace....it strikes me that maybe we have the wrong players.....apologies for being so simplistic.

maybe Steve Bruce should revisit that.

[TrentVilla]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Andy, your points about Warnock are confusing, many on her baulked when his name was mentioned after RDM.....now he is a master tactician.

I don't think people are being complimentary about Warnock, that is kind of the point.

[TRO]

Just now, TrentVilla said:

I don't think people are being complimentary about Warnock, that is kind of the point.

When someone cites Neil Warnock as tactically out flanking Steve Bruce......I would suspect Neil Himself would read that as a compliment....but hey ho.

maybe, i got fooled by the possible sarcasm.

 

[Keener window-cleaner]

About a year ago I was very much against sacking Di Matteo, mainly because we have changed managers so many times the last years that it's becoming silly, we need continuity. I am inclined to think the same way now, we can't change manager again. But if we could find a good long term replacement (Southgate?) I wouldn't mind Bruce going. Mostly it's because we play so darn boring football. It's like Bruce puts shackles on the players with full focus on grit, giving 100% and not making any mistakes. I can't see any improvement at all since he took over. It is so much McLeish over it that it's scary. McLeish tried to defend himself by saying things like that he doesn't tell the players to pass it backwards or sideways, and defended his line ups by saying he fielded 3 forwards etc. Well, it's not about what you don't say to the players, it's about what you tell them to do. And it doesn't matter if you field 3 forwards if you play them on the wing (Like Gabby/Heskey) and first and foremost demand that they shall stick to the formation and defend. In the games last season where Bruce played Hutton as a right winger it was such a deja vu to Spurs away under McLeish. Under Houllier we got critisized for passing to much, conceding because we took risks in defence, and one of the first things McLeish said was that you should "whack it away", and in interviews with former players they explained that his tactics was to hoof it fast to the forwards. This is exactly what we have been doing the last 10 months.

I really hope that we will see some improvement, the first half against Hull was promising, so if we can continue like that I would love to give Bruce more time, but my hope is fading.    

[skarroki]

I hate it when I hear the same things about Bruce not playing to each player's strengths, yet routinely see people suggesting things like Adomah in a midfield 3, or Hourihane in just about every position except on the left hand side of central midfield. 

Why do villa fans or maybe just VTers have this obsession of looking at a good player and listing all the positions we could play him in, instead of his natural place in the side? Am I the only one who notices this? 

Bruce seems to more often than not put a player in the right position, but just not play to their strengths with the style of play we put on show, in my opinion. I don't think shoving a few of our better players out of position will change anything. 

[TrentVilla]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

When someone cites Neil Warnock as tactically out flanking Steve Bruce......I would suspect Neil Himself would read that as a compliment....but hey ho.

maybe, i got fooled by the possible sarcasm.

He might. But I don't think that is what's intended, the point is that Warnock is no tactical genius but still showed Bruce up. It's not a compliment to either of them.