Nigel Posted March 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said: Let's get Tekkers back, I'm positive that he would rather be playing for us again.... Problem he is too stubborn to come crawling back. Can you imagine if you could've told him 2 years ago that he would be playing for Palace in 2 years time hardly scoring and flirting with relegation. Nb I don't care that we are in the championship, I'm having one of those arrogant villa fan moments where I still think we're a top 10 premier league team. Hypothetically IF the gods aligned and Bennteke did find himself back at villa just how long do you think it would be till the on pitch fight with kodjia? he loved it when folks didn't pass to him! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dudevillaisnice Posted March 20, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 20, 2017 We are winning games. Doesn't have to be pretty. Top of the form table, accumulating clean sheets and we are scoring goals. Personally I am delighted with it all. We are one transfer window and probably another season in the championship away from promotion in my opinion. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, dudevillaisnice said: We are winning games. Doesn't have to be pretty. Top of the form table, accumulating clean sheets and we are scoring goals. Personally I am delighted with it all. We are one transfer window and probably another season in the championship away from promotion in my opinion. Spot on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, dudevillaisnice said: We are winning games. Doesn't have to be pretty. Top of the form table, accumulating clean sheets and we are scoring goals. Personally I am delighted with it all. We are one transfer window and probably another season in the championship away from promotion in my opinion. I agree.. only concern is.. i dont think we can play badly and win games all season. Which this season has proved. A good pre season.. a few more players in as well.. build the combinations etc next season hopefully will have some good dominant performances as well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, KSV said: I agree.. only concern is.. i dont think we can play badly and win games all season. Which this season has proved. A good pre season.. a few more players in as well.. build the combinations etc next season hopefully will have some good dominant performances as well. I think we are starting to realise what folks bang on about when talking how to get out of this league. This is the very essence of grinding out results. no team can play well every week, so you need to have a system to still pull out results no matter the opposition on the day. You have to be dogged and hard to beat. If you combine this with confidence (from winning games) along with a smattering of relative top talent this would be the best way to get up IMO. im not sure if we are playing badly, it's not pleasing on the eye definately, but we are playing to a game plan here that seems to be working. Every game we win makes us harder to beat too. I'll have more of this playing badly stuff next season! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I must be so fickle, because on Saturday my opinion changed 2 or 3 times in the space of 90mins. After that first half i was beginning to lose patience, it sounded pretty pathetic and i just couldn't see how on earth we could hope to be promoted next season playing like that. 45 mins later, another win under our belts, Scott Hogan scoring his first goal for the club, all is well and I'm checking the odds on us winning the league next season, convinced we are going up. I guess there is always going to be a bit of that with Bruce. He isn't the most exciting manager in the world, so results are everything. Now you could say thats the same with every manager, i agree, its all about results, but Bruce's style perhaps means he will get even less leeway than your average Joe. As of now, I'm convinced we are going up and Bruce is the right man. Stay tuned because I'll probably be wanting him out next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomsub Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Nothing is guaranteed with any manager but we only have to look down the road at the Boggies to see what sticking with a tried and tested manager does. I remember in his first two seasons they were calling for his head and deriding the type of football - it's all gone quiet now! We need to stick with Brucie for 3 years at least and let him gradually build a solid team - it won't happen overnight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Some of the comments on here suggest that if we had hired another manager we would be playing more attractive football than Bruce, and that he is a dinosaur when it comes to playing free flowing attractive football. But when you look at the team that we ended last season, to the team we now have that is one massive change to undertake in a year. Even if we had Mourinho, Conte, Guardiola in charge I think they would have struggled to get us playing exciting football this season. Unfortunately for it to happen it's going to take time. Bruce isn't actively asking this team to play rubbish football. He is trying to get them to play well together, but half of this side have never played together before and so it's going to take a while for partnerships to link up all over the park. We have conceded 1 goal in the last 6 games... In the previous 6 games we conceded 13 goals... Progress At this stage last season we conceded 18 goals in the previous 6 games... Progress We are a huge work in progress but it's finally coming together, defensively we are much stronger than we were before, and more importantly we are picking up points again. The exciting attacking will come, no doubt about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 4 hours ago, Stevo985 said: It's the same as the people who are STILL saying "as soon as Bruce lets them play, they look good" as if he's deliberately telling them all to play shit and be as bad as they can. People are finding every way possible to take any credit away from the manager. Well I say it and I've taken no credit away from him at all. Why on earth do a minority feel that any comment that isn't 100% backing the Manager should be frowned upon ? Why so sensitive ? He can take it. There is a view held by s few that because we are winning all criticism must cease. As daft as ceasing all praise when we were losing. An example of what is meant by 'letting them play ' was shown perfectly on Saturday. Of course it doesn't mean telling them to play badly, it means setting them up a particular way. So on Saturday after ten minutes it was clear as day that selection meant we were regularly winning defensive headers and tackles only for them to be collected by Wigan who found a big space in front of our (often 6) defenders. The midfield started looking clueless but it wasn't their fault, the players picked resulted in a lack of any real connection front to back. This changed. But it ONLY changed when Bruce altered personnel. THEN we played pretty well, the midfield worked well and we won. THAT is an example of what is meant by 'letting them play'. He is finding out some stuff works better than others. It seems to some of us that when he is less cautious we do better. Hardly a hanging offence to debate it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 35 minutes ago, Tomsub said: Nothing is guaranteed with any manager but we only have to look down the road at the Boggies to see what sticking with a tried and tested manager does. I remember in his first two seasons they were calling for his head and deriding the type of football - it's all gone quiet now! We need to stick with Brucie for 3 years at least and let him gradually build a solid team - it won't happen overnight. Exactly. Last season there was a stat about the number of games they had without a shot on target and it was ridiculous - 10+ games IIRC. Turgid football, but it kept them safe and they've been able to build on that for what is an incredibly impressive season. We have (for now) stopped letting goals in. We're starting to score a few. Wins breed confidence and a reasonably settled side breeds understanding. With both of these comes 'better' football. I love Codger scoring, but I'm even happier to see other names getting on the scoresheet. Having a threat from forwards, set pieces and midfielders is key. Maybe one day we'll score from a direct free kick...who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, terrytini said: Well I say it and I've taken no credit away from him at all. Why on earth do a minority feel that any comment that isn't 100% backing the Manager should be frowned upon ? Why so sensitive ? He can take it. There is a view held by s few that because we are winning all criticism must cease. As daft as ceasing all praise when we were losing. An example of what is meant by 'letting them play ' was shown perfectly on Saturday. Of course it doesn't mean telling them to play badly, it means setting them up a particular way. So on Saturday after ten minutes it was clear as day that selection meant we were regularly winning defensive headers and tackles only for them to be collected by Wigan who found a big space in front of our (often 6) defenders. The midfield started looking clueless but it wasn't their fault, the players picked resulted in a lack of any real connection front to back. This changed. But it ONLY changed when Bruce altered personnel. THEN we played pretty well, the midfield worked well and we won. THAT is an example of what is meant by 'letting them play'. He is finding out some stuff works better than others. It seems to some of us that when he is less cautious we do better. Hardly a hanging offence to debate it. I agree. Whilst results are looking up, he's obviously still not satisfied with performances, and should be open to criticism. There are always improvements to be made. But for me, he started with the side that won the previous game - however odd it was - which is fair enough. Good to show faith in them. It wasn't working so he brought on the players coming back from injury - presumably more his first choice players anyway - and the changes turned it round and we won again. Good management all round there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, terrytini said: Well I say it and I've taken no credit away from him at all. Why on earth do a minority feel that any comment that isn't 100% backing the Manager should be frowned upon ? Why so sensitive ? He can take it. Nobody is saying that. I'm certainly not. There's plenty that Bruce can and should be criticised on over the past few months. I've criticised him numerous times. But when the team playing well is put down to the manager "letting" them, implying that what he usually does is make them play crap, it gives the impression that you're making every effort to take credit away from him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 20, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 20, 2017 Ok so here is my typically unbiased and on the money (and humble) assessment of Saturday... I thought the game management shown by Bruce against Sheffield was top drawer. He identified a weakness and took the opportunity presented by yet another injury to switch things up early on in order to take advantage. However I thought he made a mistake in sticking with that lineup as a starting one Vs Wigan. The 'shock' factor of it forced Wednesday into a corner from which they didn't recover, Wigan however looked ready for it. Upon which we were delivered one of the grimmest halves of football I've seen all season. We were disjointed, lacked ideas and whilst Wigan weren't much better (shit, actually) they arguably had the better of the play. However once we made the changes, Gardner and Bree off, Adomah back on the wing, Lansbury inside and Hogan up front there was only really one winner in the game. If it was complete and utter bilge beforehand, we turned the screw from the hour and ran away with it. The highlights don't really tell the story, Wigan had the one great chance early on gifted by a silly individual error from a player that should know better, but in all honesty they were every bit as bad as we were and then had zero response once we ramped up the quality. As you would hope. Lucky it was not, crap though? Definitely. However, there is a steely determination about this side now and I can't help but think that given the way the game changed once we were able to bring some proper ballers on that we are suffering from these injuries. As a result, he should have started with the 4-5-1 that has garnered results while we wait for some of these lads to return to full fitness. It was a mistake, but one we soon corrected with talent and went on to another comfortable, if uninspiring three points. As a work in progress we are definitely getting there. I have seen enough now to know that these players are capable, not only individually but as a unit. His love affair with 2 up front concerns me slightly, but Kodjia and Hogan did seem to work well together. My worry is that this leaves Hourihane and Lansbury with too much to do in midfield, I'm intrigued to see how it all pans out. For now, given the injuries we have, we have done a fantastic job to show such resilience. Whether the football is 'pretty' or not is by the by, we are functional. It's a foundation to be built upon. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 17 hours ago, Stevo985 said: It's what people moan about when they have nothing else to moan about. Usually it's a sign that things are going pretty well. Nah, sorry, but this is absolute bollocks. I've had a lot of discussion about this recently (most people just wish to see wins at whatever cost) and it is entirely dependent on what "one" gets out of football and, in this instance, supporting Aston Villa. Personally, I like to be entertained on the whole (not at the complete detriment of results). Right now, I'm not. I've now witnessed my team go on the best run in God knows how long (5 wins in 6!) and whilst it's great that we're winning games, I can honestly say I don't feel much satisfaction from it. By all accounts, I haven't watched each game in full and have mainly been watching poor streams, listening to commentary or just seeing highlights. However, in each of those games, it seems like we've been poor. Only against Rotherham (rock bottom, cut adrift) have we managed to control the game and create a fair amount - every other game in this run, we haven't done that. People are saying things like we "belong in the Premier League". Currently, we really, really don't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 1 minute ago, bobzy said: By all accounts, I haven't watched each game in full and have mainly been watching poor streams, listening to commentary or just seeing highlights. However, in each of those games, it seems like we've been poor. Then you're basing your opinion on somebody elses opinion of the game(s) As long as you're aware of that and taking it into account, fair enough. Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said: Then you're basing your opinion on somebody elses opinion of the game(s) As long as you're aware of that and taking it into account, fair enough. Each to their own. Correct, to a certain extent. The Wigan game is the one I have least knowledge of. I have only seen highlights, read match reports and read opinions on here. By all accounts, it seems we were shit - but maybe that's incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 18 hours ago, terrytini said: I think when I say 'pretty' I mean a combination of possession, passing etc - Arsenal if you like, or Wigan under Martinez, or Swansea. And I definitely DONT think it IS pretty, or particularly special to watch - and I certainly see no need for us to play like it. I love grit, defensive play, being hard to beat, getting on other teams nerves etc. My comparison would be our Title winning side and Ipswich. All the so-called 'purists' liked Ipswich more. I preferred us, not just because we were us, but I liked our high energy, our fast counter attacks, our combatitive style. We've done it several times since too. All we need to do is link play from front to back more and not get sucked into/set up for a deep defensive set up........and as Ive said I'm actually quite hopeful we have deliberately bought players who will allow it. Just need Brucie to grab the bull by the horns ! I think he will do , Terry. It is all about our perceptions......but I think he has tried to focus on building the confidence at the back and create clean sheets.....He will then gradually move on the the other departments, without disrupting the defence. I concur with your preferred playing style......However Ipswich was formidable too that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 20, 2017 Moderator Share Posted March 20, 2017 43 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Ok so here is my...on the money ...assessment of Saturday......we were delivered one of the grimmest halves of football I've seen all season. We were disjointed, lacked ideas and whilst Wigan weren't much better (shit, actually) they arguably had the better of the play. However once we made the changes...there was only really one winner in the game. If it was complete and utter bilge beforehand, we turned the screw from the hour and ran away with it. The highlights don't really tell the story, Wigan had the one great chance early on gifted by a silly individual error from a player that should know better, but in all honesty they were every bit as bad as we were and then had zero response once we ramped up the quality...Lucky it was not, crap though? Definitely. However, there is a steely determination about this side now and I can't help but think that given the way the game changed once we were able to bring some proper ballers on that we are suffering from these injuries. As a result, he should have started with the 4-5-1 that has garnered results while we wait for some of these lads to return to full fitness. It was a mistake, but one we soon corrected with talent and went on to another comfortable, if uninspiring three points.....His love affair with 2 up front concerns me slightly... For now, given the injuries we have, we have done a fantastic job to show such resilience. Whether the football is 'pretty' or not is by the by, we are functional. It's a foundation to be built upon. I agree with quite a lot of that, though I see it slightly differently.4-4-2 is not a worry at all for me. It's not exactly drifting away from the conventional, it's meat and potatoes, really. Nothing to worry about. The players can make it work, it's absolutely routine. We were worse than Wigan for most of the game, until Bruce changed things. I thought they might have scored 3, just from errors at the back by us. It was like the Preston (a) game in many respects for an hour. We were lucky not to be behind in the game, IMO. But ther rest, I agree - resilience, injuries, long way to go..yada yada all spot on. As for the style of football discussion, I kind of look at it like if the players of any team, any style can demonstrate good touch, good movement, passing, shooting, vision, speed of thought etc. then it's entertaining - watching good players play well. The problem we've had over recent years is watching too many poor (relatively) players perfom badly. The team and squad is set up better now and there's the opportunity to improve the cohesion and confidence which in turn will improve the attractiveness of the play. As much as it's true that winning football is good football, it's also the case that good/attractive football tends to lead to winning more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 On 12/03/2017 at 22:01, kurtsimonw said: You're using the wrong date. The table on that link includes 2 of those 4 wins. Before these 4 wins, we were 6 points clear. Now 10. 4 points isn't a massive leap, but it's still more than 1 point. And now only 11 points. Now here is another bit of irony.........during our good run of form we have made up 11 points on 6th but only managed to increase the gap to the relegation places by 5 points......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, bobzy said: Nah, sorry, but this is absolute bollocks. I've had a lot of discussion about this recently (most people just wish to see wins at whatever cost) and it is entirely dependent on what "one" gets out of football and, in this instance, supporting Aston Villa. Personally, I like to be entertained on the whole (not at the complete detriment of results). Right now, I'm not. I've now witnessed my team go on the best run in God knows how long (5 wins in 6!) and whilst it's great that we're winning games, I can honestly say I don't feel much satisfaction from it. By all accounts, I haven't watched each game in full and have mainly been watching poor streams, listening to commentary or just seeing highlights. However, in each of those games, it seems like we've been poor. Only against Rotherham (rock bottom, cut adrift) have we managed to control the game and create a fair amount - every other game in this run, we haven't done that. People are saying things like we "belong in the Premier League". Currently, we really, really don't. I think there is a case to say the quality of football on display is questionable, but I believe such was the extent of our fall......getting back to winning games and keeping clean sheets was his initial priority on our way back to respectability. I do not subscribe to the theory that the manager is some kind of anti- football protagonist that has set the team to play turgid football.....I believe it is a by product of not being close to the finished article. Steve Bruce is well aware of the comments made about the football by Terry, GH, you Bobzy etc......These issues will be addressed, but only when he is confident the initial things have been fixed. The only difference I see in the posts is ......some fans want jam tomorrow, others are in receipt of the poor football, but are willing to wait. I am not blaming the players, they are learning to play with each other, but equally to blame the manager for issues that involve poor back passes, errors in goal, missed chances etc is folly......These are player issues, that they have to work on, not manager issues. Steve Bruce is trying to "boil the ocean" give him time to get around to all the elements. Edited March 20, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts