Steve Bruce

[TRO]

29 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

 

and thats helped Bruce out to a certain extent.

I will be happily proven wrong..........time will tell.

I think if you said that to him......He would chase you out of BMH......Such is the frustration, he is experiencing with it.

You will be proved wrong and you will be happy.....just may take a bit longer, than the enjoyment some of us are feeling watching us return to winning ways and seeing the teams soft underbelly gradually disappearing.

[markavfc40]

4 hours ago, bobzy said:

I've now witnessed my team go on the best run in God knows how long (5 wins in 6!) and whilst it's great that we're winning games, I can honestly say I don't feel much satisfaction from it.  By all accounts, I haven't watched each game in full and have mainly been watching poor streams, listening to commentary or just seeing highlights.  However, in each of those games, it seems like we've been poor.  Only against Rotherham (rock bottom, cut adrift) have we managed to control the game and create a fair amount - every other game in this run, we haven't done that.

 

I can't agree with this. We haven't been poor in each game although it has been a bit of a mixed bag.

We got more than we deserved against Derby, we played decent in spells and thoroughly deserved to beat Bristol and Rotherham, against Huddersfield we played well and deserved to get something from the game, we deserved to beat Sheff Wednesday in an overall good performance and on Saturday we rode our luck in what was at times a lack lustre performance. Overall I'd say the performances have pretty much yielded the amount of points they warranted.

We aren't playing exciting football but we are playing effective football. Whether we ever get exciting football under Bruce I am not really sure and I'm not sure I care. Arguably our best performances this season have been against Forest and Preston at home and Brighton and Huddersfield away yet we failed to win any of those games.

I don't personally think any side plays particularly attractive football in this league. It is very much a war of attrition often playing Saturday, Tuesday and I think being the massive fish in this league, alongside Newcastle, has meant that teams have often given a little bit more against us wanting to take the big scalp and where we have struggled until recently is matching them in terms of effort and getting stuck in. We will still be the big scalp next season and the fact that we are now developing a knack of grinding out results can only be a good thing as that will be crucial in getting us out of this division.

For the first time in years we are getting some foundations in place now. Developing a winning mentality, banishing the issues of winning away from home and a team is evolving and spirit amongst them being ingrained. I am as hopeful about the future as I have been in a long time. Better performances would be the cherry on the icing on the cake but for now having done without it for so long I'll take the cake and continue to enjoy seeing us play winning, effective football.

Edited March 20, 2017 by markavfc40

[TRO]

2 hours ago, mykeyb said:

I think thats being generous. For me he is still making exactly the same mistakes he was during the Jan/Feb run only he has Jedinak back which has made a huge difference and Kodja who has added some much needed goals. The starting eleven on saturday was poor even by Bruces standards and we could have been 3.0 down at half time because of it, and in the bad run we probably would have been.

The fact we was not 3-0 down at half time is surely to our credit too.....its not a one-way street.

Football, like many other sports is about exchanging blows.....and scoring and stopping your opponent from doing so.

[Dodgyknees]

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I find it interesting after the 6 years we have had that for some it isn't enough to string a few results together, have a season of rebuilding on and off the pitch whilst playing, for the main part under Bruce, competent football. I get the feeling that want to run before we've learned to walk again following the hobbling of the Lerner years, particularly last season. 

Even I got suckered by the potential quick fix of Tony's millions, but it didn't quite materialise for one reason or another and I've no issue letting it go. They went for it and failed and I hope we've all learned that it wasn't a problem we could simply throw money at, commendable as the attempt was. 

One of my favourite periods supporting the club was under John Gregory, where a 0-0 result at half time was viewed as a fantastic result because you always knew that we would go out in the second period and turn the screw until they snapped. I'm seeing the same resilience in this side.

Maybe it isn't a style that is sustainable over long periods of time, I don't know. But as baby steps go, it's one I'm happy for us to take. 

Can't argue with that at all. How I see it too. As time goes by and confidence grows we will get better and things will change, but we are still in a healing process.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I find it interesting after the 6 years we have had that for some it isn't enough to string a few results together, have a season of rebuilding on and off the pitch whilst playing, for the main part under Bruce, competent football. I get the feeling that want to run before we've learned to walk again following the hobbling of the Lerner years, particularly last season. 

Even I got suckered by the potential quick fix of Tony's millions, but it didn't quite materialise for one reason or another and I've no issue letting it go. They went for it and failed and I hope we've all learned that it wasn't a problem we could simply throw money at, commendable as the attempt was. 

One of my favourite periods supporting the club was under John Gregory, where a 0-0 result at half time was viewed as a fantastic result because you always knew that we would go out in the second period and turn the screw until they snapped. I'm seeing the same resilience in this side.

Maybe it isn't a style that is sustainable over long periods of time, I don't know. But as baby steps go, it's one I'm happy for us to take. 

good post Dave and one I can relate to.

just to add,

I think we all did and IMO the source of much frustration, but that can be construed as much our fault as fans (for thinking such things) as theirs.

......I too realise you need money, particularly to seize opportunities, but its not the be all and end all.

We will continue to make mistakes and you have highlighted that......but there is a sincerity about this new regime IMO, that makes it more palatable.

We have to cut them a bit of slack, they are learning to work with each other too, just like the players.......its all so new.

IncidentIy,I loved that time of resilience too....wasn't always picturesque, but dogged and made you proud of a team that gave no quarter.

Edited March 20, 2017 by TRO

[bannedfromHandV]

Guys, the money was not spent wisely by a Manager who, as hindsight now tells us, was not the right appointment.

Had that money been invested wisely we'd be in amongst the top 2 or 3 in the division now I'm sure.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Guys, the money was not spent wisely by a Manager who, as hindsight now tells us, was not the right appointment.

Had that money been invested wisely we'd be in amongst the top 2 or 3 in the division now I'm sure.

as is more times than not (in any football club) the source of the problem.

Thats why, folk like our own Tony Barton and Steve Walsh was/is worth their weight in gold.

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

If you're not satisfied by the team you support winning football matches then I don't even know where to start the discussion.

I'm entertained by Villa winning.

That's great - it doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees is "moaning because there's nothing else to moan about", that's just wrong. People get all sorts of different things out of football.  Winning isn't the be-all and end-all for me, it is for other people.

I'd love to see us owned by a local person/group of people who invest sensibly in the club - other people don't care who owns the club as long as they throw money around.

Each to their own, eh?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

That's great - it doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees is "moaning because there's nothing else to moan about", that's just wrong. People get all sorts of different things out of football.  Winning isn't the be-all and end-all for me, it is for other people.

I'd love to see us owned by a local person/group of people who invest sensibly in the club - other people don't care who owns the club as long as they throw money around.

Each to their own, eh?

However you also, rightly, don't want Aston Villa to be looking up at a club like Barnsley. You can't have your cake and eat it, something has to give. 

My priority is feeling like Aston Villa are in a positions to win trophies, nothing beats that buzz. Even if it is reaching the FA Cup final and falling short, or being top at Christmas and having that insane rush of hope coursing through the veins, that Aston Villa might be on the verge of something massive here. 

It's not that unachievable a goal. We've been there a few times over the last 25 years and who knows, one day we might actually go that little bit further. If I had to suffer a decade of Tony Pulis to get us back there I would do. 

[bobzy]

39 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I can't agree with this. We haven't been poor in each game although it has been a bit of a mixed bag.

We got more than we deserved against Derby, we played decent in spells and thoroughly deserved to beat Bristol and Rotherham, against Huddersfield we played well and deserved to get something from the game, we deserved to beat Sheff Wednesday in an overall good performance and on Saturday we rode our luck in what was at times a lack lustre performance. Overall I'd say the performances have pretty much yielded the amount of points they warranted.

And I can't agree with this

Against Derby, we were poor but managed to score.  The game was between 2 poor teams and a draw was probably the "fair" result, even though they looked the better team.  Against Bristol City, they hit the woodwork (maybe twice?) and we always looked vulnerable - not at all in control of the game - however, it was a better performance than against Derby for sure.  Rotherham we were fine and created a lot, but that was against a team that is completely cut adrift from everyone else.

Against Huddersfield, we pretty much did what Bristol City did to us - looked dangerous in part but couldn't convert chances, ended up losing.  Sheffield Wednesday were well on top of us first half and pretty much up until a (dubious, from memory) sending off which turned the game entirely in our favour.  And, whilst I didn't see the Wigan game at all, it sounds like we were once again poor but managed to scrape through.

The performances certainly haven't "warranted" 15 points from a possible 18, but we've ground out some results which is great - and, particularly in the last 2 games, especially good as we've had a lot of injuries.

44 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I don't personally think any side plays particularly attractive football in this league. It is very much a war of attrition often playing playing Saturday, Tuesday and I think being the massive fish in this league, alongside Newcastle, has meant that teams have often given a little bit more against us wanting to take the big scalp and where we have struggled until recently is matching them in terms of effort and getting stuck in. We will still be the big scalp next season and the fact that we are now developing a knack of grinding out results can only be a good thing as that will be crucial in getting us out of this division.

There are a lot of good footballing sides in this division - many of them simply don't have the quality of player to compete at the top end of the table.  In particular, teams like Brentford, Barnsley, Preston, Bristol City, Norwich (perhaps should be doing better) and, to an extent, Forest too.  They're enjoyable to watch.

I don't buy the big scalp thing either to be honest - it's not like teams have changed up that much when they play us.

But yes, grinding out results when not playing well is certainly a good thing and will be crucial next season.

[markavfc40]

34 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Guys, the money was not spent wisely by a Manager who, as hindsight now tells us, was not the right appointment.

Had that money been invested wisely we'd be in amongst the top 2 or 3 in the division now I'm sure.

I think that is the problem here isn't it in that many people,certainly those outside of the club, look simply at what we have spent and say they should be doing much better. That is taking the huge assumption though that the money was spent wisely.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I think most would now agree that the money we spent last summer could have been spent much better. Gollini, McCormack, Elphick, Tshibola for combined fees of around 27 mill have so far given us poor returns. For every good signing last summer the evidence so far suggests there was one we paid well over the odds for.

On the upside though, even though it is very early days, the money spent in January looks very well spent. Lansbury, Hourihane, Bree for around 8 mill combined looks like daylight robbery, Taylor for Ayew and money our way looks a good deal. Hogan at this stage too early to judge but I think he has that something about him and will challenge Kodjia next season for leading scorer. He is the polar opposite to McCormack in that he looks hungry and will give his all in striving to play at the highest level possible.

It is way too simplistic to say that Bruce should have done much better as this squad cost X amount. I can understand those outside the club doing it but those of us who follow us should know the dire mess we were and that the squad needed major surgery last summer and know that the surgeon who initially undertook it didn't do the best job given the funds at his disposal. Simple logic should also tell us that you aren't going to get a group of individuals to evolve into a team overnight no matter how good they are. It takes time and thankfully we have people above the manager who appreciate that and are allowing a manager with a proven track record that time.

Edited March 20, 2017 by markavfc40

[bobzy]

7 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

However you also, rightly, don't want Aston Villa to be looking up at a club like Barnsley. You can't have your cake and eat it, something has to give. 

My priority is feeling like Aston Villa are in a positions to win trophies, nothing beats that buzz. Even if it is reaching the FA Cup final and falling short, or being top at Christmas and having that insane rush of hope coursing through the veins, that Aston Villa might be on the verge of something massive here. 

It's not that unachievable a goal. We've been there a few times over the last 25 years and who knows, one day we might actually go that little bit further. If I had to suffer a decade of Tony Pulis to get us back there I would do. 

I have no worries about who we look up to - although, ideally, it would be no team .  The Barnsley thing was more that I find it a bit cringeworthy to track when our £80m juggernaut would pass the team who we purchased the best player of.  A team whose transfer record is £1.5m and who haven't spent more than that since the 90's.  A bit of fun, sure, but a bit naff too.  I have no issue with "a club like" Huddersfield being above us.  Fair play to them.

Completely agree on your middle part, though.  The chance of winning something is a great buzz - something I've only experienced in cup competitions.  When we played really well against Liverpool, there was a hope (if unrealistic) that we could possibly steal the game away from Arsenal.  Of course...

...but yes, we love the game for many reasons with a chance of a trophy being the pinnacle.  We've discussed it before but would I take horrible football for an entire season to win the Championship?  Absolutely.  Horrible football to peak at 5th and get a shot at the Playoffs to scrape into the top flight?  Meh, I mean... I'd take it, of course.  I wouldn't feel that buzz, though.

Edited March 20, 2017 by bobzy

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

However you also, rightly, don't want Aston Villa to be looking up at a club like Barnsley. You can't have your cake and eat it, something has to give. 

My priority is feeling like Aston Villa are in a positions to win trophies, nothing beats that buzz. Even if it is reaching the FA Cup final and falling short, or being top at Christmas and having that insane rush of hope coursing through the veins, that Aston Villa might be on the verge of something massive here. 

It's not that unachievable a goal. We've been there a few times over the last 25 years and who knows, one day we might actually go that little bit further. If I had to suffer a decade of Tony Pulis to get us back there I would do. 

You tease!!!!!

Edited March 20, 2017 by TRO

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Good post @bobzy. 

[blandy]

22 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

However you also, rightly, don't want Aston Villa to be looking up at a club like Barnsley. You can't have your cake and eat it, something has to give. 

I agree with the rest of your post, but not so much with something tangential to this bit.

It sounds mad, maybe, but I have no problem if Barnsley or whoever are "looking down" on us if they have earned it. It's the whole point of sport - do efforts to win. Otherwise for me personally it becomes like a procession based on a sort of notion of "Yeah, Liverpool, big club, bigger than Spurs, so they go there, then next it's Chelsea, and then it's Everton and then Man City, then ...." 

So for me if Bournemouth, Swansea or whoever are doing much better than Villa (or Arsenal, or whoever) then good on 'em. Like Leicester last year. Yeah, I wish it had been us, but kind of praise the others rather than dig out the Villa.

I get that's not what you're saying, but I just don't like the sense of entitlement that can (not with you) take over. It's why Arsenal fans are up in arms about Wenger - because they've become so used to being right at or near the top, they've lost their perspective.

So not a comment about your post, just a "well if we should be above Barnsley, then the club needs to show us that's the case , rather than us just feel it's a "right""

[TrentVilla]

Blimey... It's a long time until the next game isn't it....

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I completely understand where you're coming from @blandy and I guess if I'd expanded on it more I'd have said something along those lines myself. In fact that's one thing we have shown over the past few weeks, a healthy respect for our opponents. 

There is the added caveat that I don't really want Aston Villa looking up at anybody. That's not a dig on other clubs because we're talking about all other clubs here, it's more a case that I have set the very highest bar for my club. With due respect to the fact we're not the only ones chasing glory of course.

I can accept failure. What I can't accept is never having tried.

Edited March 21, 2017 by dont_do_it_doug.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Steve Bruce, rather then being held up as 'the answer', should be viewed as a tool which we use to return Aston Villa to its rightful place and I'm happy to accept functionality first if it gets the job done. 

Because ultimately we're not going to win sod all in the Championship. We might as well be Accrington Stanley.

[TRO]

50 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Steve Bruce, rather then being held up as 'the answer', should be viewed as a tool which we use to return Aston Villa to its rightful place and I'm happy to accept functionality first if it gets the job done. 

Because ultimately we're not going to win sod all in the Championship. We might as well be Accrington Stanley.

......" who are they"

[dont_do_it_doug.]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

......" who are they"

Precisely why I picked on Accrington Stanley merely to illustrate a point, who I'm sure are a great club to support! Let's be honest though, never going to win a major trophy are they? We operate in a different league to those clubs and should strive to be even better. 

That's not arrogance, it's just the way it is. In order to be 'better' every facet of the club needs to believe that we can, from the owner all the way down to ourselves. If the players or the manager, or even the tea lady, can't deal with the pressure of playing for Aston Villa then they need to go.

However we also need to keep a cool head and accept that it might take a bit of time. Don't let the bumps in the road break us, such as winning 5 from 6 but not playing 'great' football. They're bumps I'm willing to accept.

Edited March 20, 2017 by dont_do_it_doug.