Dave J Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 3 hours ago, LakotaDakota said: Yet more absolute bollocks, This has been covered multiple times before. Sure it is technically 4 promotions in 20 years but how many of those years was he outside of the top division where promotion is actually a physical possibility before coming to us? the answer 4, He got promoted every single time. Look at Fergie, absolute shit, no promotions at all in 25+ years, Mourinho, rubbish, no promotions in 15 years & as for pep, complete charlaton,no promotions ever.... Dean Smith has more promotions than Fergie, Mourinho, Pep, Shankley & Wenger combined.... I'm afraid you can't have it both ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 20 hours ago, Stevo985 said: It doesn't mean the good stuff didn't happen thought does it? Yeah he left us in a mess and failed in his ultimate goal, which taints his tenure as a whole. But it doesn't eradicate the good stuff he did completely. Lakota was talking about the team spirit we had in his last full season. And he's right. He might have exagerrated it a bit, but it was still a fantastic spirit we had that season. That doesn't disappear because he left in a mess. He made plenty of good signings. McGinn, El Ghazi, Abraham, Hourihane, Elmohamady, Whelan, Johnstone, Terry etc etc Yeah he signed some duds, all managers do, but again that doesn't mean the good things didn't happen. I totally agree that the way he left us taints his reign and leaves him in a less favourable light. But this thread seems to be full of people rewriting history and claiming we didn't have good team spirit, or that good signings weren't his decision, or were ruined by him or whatever. That's not how it works. The good stuff still happened even if he left us in the lurch and will leave a lot of us looking back unfavourably on him. Fantastic team spirit - you quote this a lot - was it really fantastic ? I don't think so. i'd say last year was fantastic - after Bruce left. Did you see anything fantastic at 2-2 with Preston ? A defining moment in his tenure you might argue - nor me either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dave J said: Fantastic team spirit - you quote this a lot - was it really fantastic ? I don't think so. i'd say last year was fantastic - after Bruce left. Did you see anything fantastic at 2-2 with Preston ? A defining moment in his tenure you might argue - nor me either Yes it was It was for some of it, there didn't look to be much spirit anywhere when we managed 2 wins in 13 - after bruce left No, wow 1 game out of 102... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Dave J said: I'm afraid you can't have it both ways 15 Seasons, 4 of these had the possibility of promotion. all 4 were achieved, Can't get promoted from the premier league can you so saying someone only has 4 promotions in 15 years is completely pointless 01/02 Championship - PROMOTED 02/03 Premier League 03/04 Premier League 04/05 Premier League 05/06 Premier League 06/07 Championship - PROMOTED 07/08 Premier League 08/09 Premier League 09/10 Premier League 10/11 Premier League 11/12 Premier League 12/13 Championship - PROMOTED 13/14 Premier League 14/15 Premier League 15/16 Championship - PROMOTED Edited June 14, 2019 by LakotaDakota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted June 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 14, 2019 To be fair there’s a few seasons at the start of his career and a few recent seasons missing from that list. It’s a good record, but I only care about the zero promotions with Aston Villa. On the subject of squad morale, I think there was a togetherness in the side during 17/18, not as great as last season, but it was there. I remember thinking it in that 1-0 away win against Sheff United. There seemed to be a real bond between them. In some ways that was one of my favourite wins under Bruce. But in terms of the mental strength of the team when the chips were down, I’m not sure. I’m trying to imagine what might have happened if we had missed a penalty, seen Terry receive a red card and go into halftime away at Rotherham. Would we have seen the same turn around, I don’t know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 What does it matter what he did with Hull City or Wigan when he never got promoted with Aston Villa? It's irrelevant. I don't care if he was considered a promotion specialist, it counted for naught in the end. A man with 0 promotions from the Championship is the one that got us up. It just shows the kind of mentality we had after we dropped back into the Championship with our first 2 appointments under Xia (and showed in our transfer policy too). We wanted old and steady and we went nowhere other than almost bankrupt with an old squad. I'm honestly very glad for Bruce's limitations as it meant we didn't get promoted last year. Who would know what would have happened if we did? We might have gone down in worse shape than we did the first time around. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 7 hours ago, LakotaDakota said: 15 Seasons, 4 of these had the possibility of promotion. all 4 were achieved, Can't get promoted from the premier league can you so saying someone only has 4 promotions in 15 years is completely pointless 01/02 Championship - PROMOTED 02/03 Premier League 03/04 Premier League 04/05 Premier League 05/06 Premier League 06/07 Championship - PROMOTED 07/08 Premier League 08/09 Premier League 09/10 Premier League 10/11 Premier League 11/12 Premier League 12/13 Championship - PROMOTED 13/14 Premier League 14/15 Premier League 15/16 Championship - PROMOTED With respect I will say again - you can't have it both ways. However do you really think this record depicts anything other than an average managerial career ? Dont you think that after 20 odd years in the game - the fact that he has never landed a top job - or ever really been in the frame for one - tells you all you really need to know. Before he was appointed as our manager my underlying thoughts of Steve Bruce - were that he is a journeyman manager - not bad - nor good, bang average I suppose. In your view - what has he done that makes you feel - he does not deserve this label ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 7 hours ago, LakotaDakota said: Yes it was It was for some of it, there didn't look to be much spirit anywhere when we managed 2 wins in 13 - after bruce left No, wow 1 game out of 102... Strange but ok. I think my point here is this. If Bruce was as popular and garnered as much team spirit as you and others suggest - why when most of us knew that anything other than s win - might seal his fete, did the team put in such a display. I'm not saying any of our players disliked him - but neither did I think they would run through brick walls for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicVillan Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 15 hours ago, Dave J said: There is a reason - why he has never got a top job ( apart from us whilst on our knees ) is this - he is average in every way. Average was a big improvement at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 9 hours ago, CosmicVillan said: Average was a big improvement at the time That is a fair point. But it does not make it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kurtsimonw Posted June 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 15, 2019 Don't really get the hate. Came in at the clubs lowest point for 4 decades. He had a bunch of players who clearly didn't want to be at the club, had to try and balance the books a bit and took us to a playoff final. Without Bruce and the job he did, the only way out of the division would've been doing a Sunderland. There's no way we'd be a Premier League club now IMO. Just because someone else came in and did a better job, doesn't make the job he did irrelevant or bad. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicVillan Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave J said: That is a fair point. But it does not make it right Before Bruce we shipped goals left & right, players chins were on the floor, nobody could remember the last time we won away and he got us one decent performance away from the Prem whilst being prepared to stand by us when the club looked like it was going bust. I am glad we had him as he turned things around, but I was glad when he went when things took a downturn. He was the right guy for where we were at that time but not for where we are now. He played his part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) We'd just spent more than most championship clubs had ever spent, any decent manager would have turned us around to the extent that Bruce did, even under Di Matteo we wasn't playing badly. Besides I think this idea that he turned us around is a bit of a myth, his first season in charge we finished eighteen points off the play-offs, and thirty-one points off top two, only Wigan, small heath, and Rotherham scored few goals than us that season. He should have left after that poor first season. Edited June 15, 2019 by useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 1 hour ago, kurtsimonw said: Don't really get the hate. Came in at the clubs lowest point for 4 decades. He had a bunch of players who clearly didn't want to be at the club, had to try and balance the books a bit and took us to a playoff final. Without Bruce and the job he did, the only way out of the division would've been doing a Sunderland. There's no way we'd be a Premier League club now IMO. Just because someone else came in and did a better job, doesn't make the job he did irrelevant or bad. Disagree. Many many other managers could have come in and got better results and performances with the resources available. Whole club had issues at the time with Wyness and Xia in charge though. The steps that happened have took us to this point which is ultimately a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Never really held the "most expensive squad ever assembled" argument with much weight, because football money is only up (quickly). So comparing money today to money pre-neymar is void really. Compared to other clubs we spent a lot, although Newcastle when they came down had a huge wage bill. But that's what happens when teams come down from the prem, especially clubs like ours with large fan bases and infrastructure. We were never going to be comparable to Rotherham or Preston. The football wasnt great, but he definitely lifted us up from our lowest ebb in 10 years. The last few games before his sacking were very bad and the squad balance was criminal, hence why he was sacked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Steve Bruce signed McGinn don't forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Great promotion record. Shame he failed the 3 seasons he was here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) He's gone now. Edited June 15, 2019 by useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 39 minutes ago, useless said: He's gone now. Has he, when did that happen?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 2 hours ago, CosmicVillan said: Before Bruce we shipped goals left & right, players chins were on the floor, nobody could remember the last time we won away and he got us one decent performance away from the Prem whilst being prepared to stand by us when the club looked like it was going bust. I am glad we had him as he turned things around, but I was glad when he went when things took a downturn. He was the right guy for where we were at that time but not for where we are now. He played his part. One decent win might as well have been 10 wins away - when taking into account what he had at his disposal. And was he really so upstanding towards the club ? There were reports on here that he was looking west until the new owners came in to the club. Look neither of us know him - but I can't help feeling he looks out for no 1 and that's where it ends imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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