Mic09 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 minute ago, useless said: Lambert peformed miracles in keeping us in the Premier league, even when he was sacked we were only in the relegation zone on goal difference with I think it was twelve games still left to go. As soon as he left the club look what happened. We stayed up with Tim Sherwood and reached a cup final? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 The club went down as one of the worst Premier league sides ever, and then spent three seasons in the championship, nearly going out of business in the process is what happened. And as for that Cup Final we lost 4-0. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 13, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, avfcDJ said: Equal measures really. Hogan and McGinn, the good and the bad. He'd get a better time from the fans of he hadn't have been such a word removed towards those who cheered his name loud even on the bad days. Yep, like I said he did plenty of bad things. He also did plenty of good. Reading this thread you'd often be forgiven for thinking he didn't do anything good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted June 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Yep, like I said he did plenty of bad things. He also did plenty of good. Reading this thread you'd often be forgiven for thinking he didn't do anything good. He did do good, however he then went and left us in an absolute mess, which for me cancels out a lot of that. Smith worked a miracle getting us up, breaking a club record in order to do it. Had we failed, the long term damage caused by bruce would have been huge. We can look back with a bit more kindness thanks to the amazing work Dean Smith did 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tomaszk Posted June 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: We can look back with a bit more kindness thanks to the amazing work Dean Smith did. Smith's miracle performance of picking us up off the floor will shine more favourable light on Bruce that he doesn't deserve. His media chums will make sure of that. His name will come up as a potential replacement for Smith if we're struggling, mark my words. There's a weird revision that goes on with Bruce where he's given underserved praise despite failing to get promotion, making us disgusting to watch and having a go at fans that backed him. So strange. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 13, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: He did do good, however he then went and left us in an absolute mess, which for me cancels out a lot of that. Smith worked a miracle getting us up, breaking a club record in order to do it. Had we failed, the long term damage caused by bruce would have been huge. We can look back with a bit more kindness thanks to the amazing work Dean Smith did It doesn't mean the good stuff didn't happen thought does it? Yeah he left us in a mess and failed in his ultimate goal, which taints his tenure as a whole. But it doesn't eradicate the good stuff he did completely. Lakota was talking about the team spirit we had in his last full season. And he's right. He might have exagerrated it a bit, but it was still a fantastic spirit we had that season. That doesn't disappear because he left in a mess. He made plenty of good signings. McGinn, El Ghazi, Abraham, Hourihane, Elmohamady, Whelan, Johnstone, Terry etc etc Yeah he signed some duds, all managers do, but again that doesn't mean the good things didn't happen. I totally agree that the way he left us taints his reign and leaves him in a less favourable light. But this thread seems to be full of people rewriting history and claiming we didn't have good team spirit, or that good signings weren't his decision, or were ruined by him or whatever. That's not how it works. The good stuff still happened even if he left us in the lurch and will leave a lot of us looking back unfavourably on him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 9 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Bruce had a lot of faults, he ultimately failed in his goal here and he was rightly sacked and should have been sacked sooner. But the rewriting of his tenure by some and the dismissing of anything good he did is hilarious. Indeed Last year was an entertaining season and if we have beaten Fulham, he'd have been the hero. Fine margins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 4 hours ago, useless said: The club went down as one of the worst Premier league sides ever, and then spent three seasons in the championship, nearly going out of business in the process is what happened. And as for that Cup Final we lost 4-0. We'd have gone down a season earlier if Lambert stayed on. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 What Dean has achieved is a minor miracle....but I would suspect he would be generous in his appraisal of what SB did before him too. just like Vic Crowe and Ron Saunders.....and like a relay race someone has to hand over the baton and their good work is crucial to the new manager.I think Dean would be quick to admit that. I think Dean is a better manager, but would not dismiss some of the good stuff Bruce has done and 24 wins in a season has to help with the team spirit behind the scenes.....these things take time to build, it doesn't happen in 5 minutes. Just like Brexit folk will have their views and no one will change them......looking forward to the New times under Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Yep, like I said he did plenty of bad things. He also did plenty of good. Reading this thread you'd often be forgiven for thinking he didn't do anything good. has it ever been mentioned by his adversaries.....that's what makes it so difficult to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: It doesn't mean the good stuff didn't happen thought does it? Yeah he left us in a mess and failed in his ultimate goal, which taints his tenure as a whole. But it doesn't eradicate the good stuff he did completely. Lakota was talking about the team spirit we had in his last full season. And he's right. He might have exagerrated it a bit, but it was still a fantastic spirit we had that season. That doesn't disappear because he left in a mess. He made plenty of good signings. McGinn, El Ghazi, Abraham, Hourihane, Elmohamady, Whelan, Johnstone, Terry etc etc Yeah he signed some duds, all managers do, but again that doesn't mean the good things didn't happen. I totally agree that the way he left us taints his reign and leaves him in a less favourable light. But this thread seems to be full of people rewriting history and claiming we didn't have good team spirit, or that good signings weren't his decision, or were ruined by him or whatever. That's not how it works. The good stuff still happened even if he left us in the lurch and will leave a lot of us looking back unfavourably on him. Doesn't mean the good stuff didn't happen but makes it pretty irrelevant in my view. No one cares about positive things Sherwood and Lambert did because the mess they left us in. If we hadn't gone up we would be in a right mess at this point and Bruce would be mainly to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 13, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: Doesn't mean the good stuff didn't happen but makes it pretty irrelevant in my view. No one cares about positive things Sherwood and Lambert did because the mess they left us in. If we hadn't gone up we would be in a right mess at this point and Bruce would be mainly to blame. Yeah but people still acknowledge the positives. I acknowledge Sherwood's cup run. It was excellent until the final. Great times. But there are people in this thread who are almost refusing to acknowledge that Bruce did certain things. Every good signing gets blamed on the club or they were ruined by Bruce until Smith took over. All the good performances we had under Bruce are explained away. The aforementioned team spirit apparently didn't happen. It's madness. People are obsessed with removing any credit from the guy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 7 hours ago, rjw63 said: No. Lamebert was worse. Fraud of a manager who got lucky at one club. I disagree - He built a very good side at Norwich, which I don't believe was a fluke. He deserved the job at the time - but left a broken man imo. The Paul Lambert of old will never be seen again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 23 minutes ago, Dave J said: I disagree - He built a very good side at Norwich, which I don't believe was a fluke. He deserved the job at the time - but left a broken man imo. The Paul Lambert of old will never be seen again Lambert is the Scott Hogan of managers. One purple patch in an otherwise abysmal managerial career. He is a terrible manager. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 On 12/06/2019 at 11:41, LakotaDakota said: Over the course of the whole season yes. Obviously most of it was down to Snodgrass & Terry an winning 24 games helped but this is really what started off all the oasis crap after the games & the mucking about with commentaries on youtube etc. After the years of shit it really started to turn last year and you could see everyone was in it together. The Xia tweets and the club social media in general all seemed to be much more positive and light hearted an the players were ovbiously on board with what they were trying to do. Sure it didn't work out but i Don't think anything that happened this season would have happened without last year being the way it was. For all of the criticisms we smashed loads of old streaks under bruce that we hadn't come close to for 20 years or more, 7 wins back to back, 5 in a row at home, 4/5 clean sheets back to back etc, All of these have a positive effect on both team & fans I would still say that Terry is a massive part of the spirit now despite his seemingly part-time assistant role You have to remember that we were playing in the Championship as opposed to the 20 years of PL football that preceded that. We were supposed to be title contenders in the Championship and apart from maybe one season in the PL, we were never even close to that...so apples to oranges. But to the overall point, I don't think I've seen a better team spirit than this season under Smith. With the loan players taking to the club and everyone loving the club and the manager like they did, last season doesn't even come close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 For me, Bruce came in and did a decent enough job in his first season, given that we were still in a tailspin after the relegation. However, we underperformed the season after and never looked like being in contention for automatic promotion, which is totally unacceptable given what he spent and how he's supposedly some sort of promotion specialist. And the less said about last season the better - I'm just glad it wasn't too late. Thank God for Dean Smith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 7 hours ago, Xela said: Indeed Last year was an entertaining season and if we have beaten Fulham, he'd have been the hero. Fine margins. While not Bruce fault financially. I dread to know what Wyness and Dr. X would have done with Premier League cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Yeah but people still acknowledge the positives. I acknowledge Sherwood's cup run. It was excellent until the final. Great times. But there are people in this thread who are almost refusing to acknowledge that Bruce did certain things. Every good signing gets blamed on the club or they were ruined by Bruce until Smith took over. All the good performances we had under Bruce are explained away. The aforementioned team spirit apparently didn't happen. It's madness. People are obsessed with removing any credit from the guy. Bruce did average things almost entirely throughout his tenure at the club. People talk about Wolves at home - yet forget the mauling at Molineux. People say we were one point off promotion - it may as well have been 21 points. The guy had resource given to him that most managers in the championship could only dream of - yet he failed in his objective in consecutive seasons. people call him the promotion guru? 4 promotions in 20 odd years of football management sounds pretty average to me. There is a reason - why he has never got a top job ( apart from us whilst on our kness ) is this - he is average in every way. And are you really sure about the team spirit you mention quite a lot ? it simply does not compare to what Smith has created imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dave J said: people call him the promotion guru? 4 promotions in 20 odd years of football management sounds pretty average to me. Yet more absolute bollocks, This has been covered multiple times before. Sure it is technically 4 promotions in 20 years but how many of those years was he outside of the top division where promotion is actually a physical possibility before coming to us? the answer 4, He got promoted every single time. Look at Fergie, absolute shit, no promotions at all in 25+ years, Mourinho, rubbish, no promotions in 15 years & as for pep, complete charlaton,no promotions ever.... Dean Smith has more promotions than Fergie, Mourinho, Pep, Shankley & Wenger combined.... Edited June 14, 2019 by LakotaDakota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 17 hours ago, Xela said: We'd have gone down a season earlier if Lambert stayed on. We should have gone down the year before barring some absolutely freak results. We beat Arsenal Liverpool and high flying Southampton away, and Man City and Chelsea at home. That's 15 points we got when normally we'd have got about 1-2 from that lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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