Mic09 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 19 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I don't think you needed to be a genius to see Steve Bruce wasn't going to be a success here. Steve Bruce being a success or not landed on one off game that we lost 0-1. I am glad we did lose that game, it was a catalyst for the takeover, change of management and brought better things to us in the long term. However, I really can't see how some claim Bruce was a disaster. Would Smith have been a disaster should we have lost to Derby? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted June 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 27, 2019 It's like you hire a contractor to help build your destroyed antique mansion back up. You bought a lot of expensive parts, even bought them off your neighbours for large sums. You hired one guy, but quickly found out he didn't know what he was doing and so you decided hire the guy with the pedigree. He has a track record of doing this, I mean he built 4 homes back up which is unrivaled. Yes his methods seem to be outdated, but he gets results and that's all you need right now. By the end, it becomes clear he just can't do it. Not only that, but he ends up leaving your place in arguably worse shape than he found it in. Then on top of that, he insulted you regularly for having the nerve to question his methods and effectiveness. Now a year later, your house is built. It's in better shape than its been in for a decade. The new guy you hired, a relative, only took a fraction of the time and resources using largely the same materials and tools the previous guy did...and all with humility and a smile on his face. Sometimes you think to yourself out loud, man, remember that asshole that took all your money to restore your mansion, but instead ended up trashing it and insulting you for it. Then your brother chimes in "Yeah but he nearly built it back up though. He was there or thereabouts, literally just one brick away from doing it. Why do you ignore that part?". And you just give him that look like Bunk from The Wire. That's this thread. 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Rob182 said: I saw him say that, and honestly I just thought he was being diplomatic, and doing that thing where managers generally talk up other managers because it’s the professional thing to do. We could mention all of the ex-pros that thought that Bruce should never have lost his job, and that he was the best man to take Villa up, but all those people ended up looking pretty foolish. Without calling out Bruce directly, Smith did make comments during the season about only having 1 fit centre back and him being on loan to Hull (or something like that), which everyone knew was Bruce’s fault, and I think that’s about as close as Smith has ever come to criticising him. Rob, I think we are in danger of losing sight of the issue here....The folk defending Steve Bruce are not maintaining he was without fault, They are maintaining he did preside of some things good.....as for your initial line.....I have to remind you Dean Smith was not pressed in to making that claim, he didn't have to make it, it looked very much to me like he felt morally he wanted to ..just like a player raising his shirt with a message on his white 'T' shirt of protestation after scoring. He felt he had to say it, in light of some of the unfair criticisms aimed at Bruce on his departure......That was my take on it....what other reason would there be?..... Dean was unprompted and unquestioned.....Don't forget Dean is a thoroughly decent and grounded man. Sure SB made mistakes and Purslow has already outlined the very unusual circumstances he had to work under after the final.....I am not sure any of his detractors have even contemplated those circumstances never mind cut him any slack...its as if it never really happened, like a bad dream, to be dismissed. Its difficult in Defending Steve Bruce in as much as you can easily drift in to inadvertently praising him......I don't want to do that, because like his detractors I too have reservations about him and I agree with SOME of their points, but to suggest like some, he never had a good deed in him, is what prompts folk like me to defend that. I am more than Happy Dean is our manager,and I believe he will take us much further than SB would, but to infer that SB was no help in what he left Dean, sorry I don't agree with that. If we have a stonking season next season, personally I will see it as Steve played his part, albeit a stabilising part i.e clearing the weeds and groundwork for Dean to put the plants in. some of the top 6 teams have had more than one manager in setting them up for where they are today. They have evolved, just like we have. Edited June 28, 2019 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: I don't think you needed to be a genius to see Steve Bruce wasn't going to be a success here. Maybe he was never meant to be?......maybe he was just meant to be a part of the process that hands over to a better manager, as and when the time was right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Here’s a separate question @TRO. During Bruce’s time here, did he ever praise Di Matteo for any of his signings that Bruce utilised? I can’t recall him doing so. I’m not saying Bruce had no positives in his management, but honestly, the man is just an arse. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Keyblade said: It's like you hire a contractor to help build your destroyed antique mansion back up. You bought a lot of expensive parts, even bought them off your neighbours for large sums. You hired one guy, but quickly found out he didn't know what he was doing and so you decided hire the guy with the pedigree. He has a track record of doing this, I mean he built 4 homes back up which is unrivaled. Yes his methods seem to be outdated, but he gets results and that's all you need right now. By the end, it becomes clear he just can't do it. Not only that, but he ends up leaving your place in arguably worse shape than he found it in. Then on top of that, he insulted you regularly for having the nerve to question his methods and effectiveness. Now a year later, your house is built. It's in better shape than its been in for a decade. The new guy you hired, a relative, only took a fraction of the time and resources using largely the same materials and tools the previous guy did...and all with humility and a smile on his face. Sometimes you think to yourself out loud, man, remember that asshole that took all your money to restore your mansion, but instead ended up trashing it and insulting you for it. Then your brother chimes in "Yeah but he nearly built it back up though. He was there or thereabouts, literally just one brick away from doing it. Why do you ignore that part?". And you just give him that look like Bunk from The Wire. That's this thread. Absolutely brilliant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 6 hours ago, TRO said: Maybe he was never meant to be?......maybe he was just meant to be a part of the process that hands over to a better manager, as and when the time was right. What a lovely way of saying he was a failure. I prefer the honest assessment than this Randy Lerner inspired version. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Keyblade said: It's like you hire a contractor to help build your destroyed antique mansion back up. You bought a lot of expensive parts, even bought them off your neighbours for large sums. You hired one guy, but quickly found out he didn't know what he was doing and so you decided hire the guy with the pedigree. He has a track record of doing this, I mean he built 4 homes back up which is unrivaled. Yes his methods seem to be outdated, but he gets results and that's all you need right now. By the end, it becomes clear he just can't do it. Not only that, but he ends up leaving your place in arguably worse shape than he found it in. Then on top of that, he insulted you regularly for having the nerve to question his methods and effectiveness. Now a year later, your house is built. It's in better shape than its been in for a decade. The new guy you hired, a relative, only took a fraction of the time and resources using largely the same materials and tools the previous guy did...and all with humility and a smile on his face. Sometimes you think to yourself out loud, man, remember that asshole that took all your money to restore your mansion, but instead ended up trashing it and insulting you for it. Then your brother chimes in "Yeah but he nearly built it back up though. He was there or thereabouts, literally just one brick away from doing it. Why do you ignore that part?". And you just give him that look like Bunk from The Wire. That's this thread. Sheeeeeeeeit. Nail on Head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 There is no chance he will be Newcastle manager. He has managed Sunderland for starters and he agent exactly set the world alight at us or Wednesday yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: There is no chance he will be Newcastle manager. He has managed Sunderland for starters and he agent exactly set the world alight at us or Wednesday yet Managed both sheffield clubs plus Villa and blues Big newcastle fan too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 12 hours ago, DCJonah said: I find it baffling how people still defend him. Guess they went so over the top when he was here, they almost have to now. They don't have to but choose to. So weird. The overall work he did here was an embarrassment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 28, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: They don't have to but choose to. So weird. What's weird is the thread constantly getting bumped by people slating him and then getting aggy about people defending him I don't see what's so hard to comprehend that some people don't hate absolutely everything the man does or has done. That's the weird part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 10 hours ago, Keyblade said: It's like you hire a contractor to help build your destroyed antique mansion back up. You bought a lot of expensive parts, even bought them off your neighbours for large sums. You hired one guy, but quickly found out he didn't know what he was doing and so you decided hire the guy with the pedigree. He has a track record of doing this, I mean he built 4 homes back up which is unrivaled. Yes his methods seem to be outdated, but he gets results and that's all you need right now. By the end, it becomes clear he just can't do it. Not only that, but he ends up leaving your place in arguably worse shape than he found it in. Then on top of that, he insulted you regularly for having the nerve to question his methods and effectiveness. Now a year later, your house is built. It's in better shape than its been in for a decade. The new guy you hired, a relative, only took a fraction of the time and resources using largely the same materials and tools the previous guy did...and all with humility and a smile on his face. Sometimes you think to yourself out loud, man, remember that asshole that took all your money to restore your mansion, but instead ended up trashing it and insulting you for it. Then your brother chimes in "Yeah but he nearly built it back up though. He was there or thereabouts, literally just one brick away from doing it. Why do you ignore that part?". And you just give him that look like Bunk from The Wire. That's this thread. Wouldn't that be Xia/RDM, not Bruce? I see a lot of people talking about him "leaving us in a worse place than when he took over". We had less than 1 point per game, and just 1 win when he took over, a quarter of the way through the season. Given he lost his job at the exact same stage of the season, the comparison becomes a lot easier. Let's forget that he had much less money to spend than his predecessor, and that the club at the top was in a much worse state - because these things will just be labelled "excuses", anyway. We h ad 50% more points, nearly double the goals, 3x the wins, we were left 2 points from the playoffs rather than the 10 when he took over from RDM. Players he signed in a cash-strapped summer were players that were the foundation for our promotion. Yes, I'm glad he was sacked. Yes, I think his football was too negative to get the best use out of these players. But left us in a worse state than when he took over? Christ. I don't care if people don't like the guy, or don't rate the guy. But why let facts get in the way of a good moan? Let it go, it's becoming an obsession. As @Stevo985 says, this thread is almost always bumped by someone who can't seem to let go of Bruce and slagging him off. But apparently those that don't think about him all day every day, and don't hate him with all of their being, are the ones that have the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 28, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: As @Stevo985 says, this thread is almost always bumped by someone who can't seem to let go of Bruce and slagging him off. But apparently those that don't think about him all day every day, and don't hate him with all of their being, are the ones that have the problem. Yep pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Newcastle 0-7 Stoke (FA Cup) "Steve, a bad day, what can you tell us?" "Wor not gonna lie, they hate me cos I managed Sunderland" Bank on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: Wouldn't that be Xia/RDM, not Bruce? I see a lot of people talking about him "leaving us in a worse place than when he took over". We had less than 1 point per game, and just 1 win when he took over, a quarter of the way through the season. Given he lost his job at the exact same stage of the season, the comparison becomes a lot easier. Let's forget that he had much less money to spend than his predecessor, and that the club at the top was in a much worse state - because these things will just be labelled "excuses", anyway. We h ad 50% more points, nearly double the goals, 3x the wins, we were left 2 points from the playoffs rather than the 10 when he took over from RDM. Players he signed in a cash-strapped summer were players that were the foundation for our promotion. Yes, I'm glad he was sacked. Yes, I think his football was too negative to get the best use out of these players. But left us in a worse state than when he took over? Christ. I don't care if people don't like the guy, or don't rate the guy. But why let facts get in the way of a good moan? Let it go, it's becoming an obsession. As @Stevo985 says, this thread is almost always bumped by someone who can't seem to let go of Bruce and slagging him off. But apparently those that don't think about him all day every day, and don't hate him with all of their being, are the ones that have the problem. Well you've picked a couple of things out. In terms of worse position than he found us, look at the state of the squad and negativity of the fan base. Think about the state we would currently be in had we not got promoted. It also took us breaking a club record to secure promotion. Smith literally had to perform a miracle to rescue us from the absolute mess Bruce would have caused this club to be. So yes he may have had a few more points than RDM had when he was sacked but you've ignored a hell of a lot to make sure you can defend this man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 28, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: you've ignored a hell of a lot to make sure you can defend this man. He's not even really defended him He's literally criticised him in that post but just disagreed with the leaving us in a worse state part. This is why it seems like there are a few posters with an obsession. You've ignored the part where he's slated Bruce, and the part where he's made a pretty reasonable post with lots of points to back up his opinion and rather than just take it as a difference of opinion you've decided it's Kurtsimonw trying desperately to defend Bruce. It really does seem like if you don't hate everything Bruce has ever done then you're apparently desperate to defend him at every opportunity rather than, you know, holding a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: It also took us breaking a club record to secure promotion. Smith literally had to perform a miracle to rescue us from the absolute mess Bruce would have caused this club to be. If we hadn't have gone up, same people would be in here absolving him. Giving Smith equal share of the blame as Brucie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 28, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Tomaszk said: If we hadn't have gone up, same people would be in here absolving him. Giving Smith equal share of the blame as Brucie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: He's not even really defended him He's literally criticised him in that post but just disagreed with the leaving us in a worse state part. This is why it seems like there are a few posters with an obsession. You've ignored the part where he's slated Bruce, and the part where he's made a pretty reasonable post with lots of points to back up his opinion and rather than just take it as a difference of opinion you've decided it's Kurtsimonw trying desperately to defend Bruce. It really does seem like if you don't hate everything Bruce has ever done then you're apparently desperate to defend him at every opportunity rather than, you know, holding a different opinion. Bit of an overreaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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