Steve Bruce

[bannedfromHandV]

I think, with all due respect guys, you probably don't see what I and a few others see in these posts because it largely aligns with the narrative you've bought into.

Its often subtle but it's always there, you only have to look at how many other threads get hijacked by a SB out debate to know this. 

Just today, there have been posts suggesting that the non-signing of a CB can only mean one of two things, both options were derogatory and/or sinister, as though they are the only two possible options. 

Then there's people hoping we don't sign Terry (despite the fact it would almost certainly benefit the club) on the basis that it would aid the Manager. 

It's not one or two people, it's all day every day and has been for a long time, I just don't think you see it because it feeds into what you want to see. 

Tis my view. 

[villabromsgrove]

I think it's time to elevate this thread to a philosophical level.

Two philosophers were contemporaries 2,500 years ago.

Parmenides coined the phrase: "What is - is", meaning change was impossible.

Heraclitus on the other hand coined the phrase: "No man steps in the same river twice, because it's not the same river and he's not the same man", meaning that ever present change was essential to the essence of the universe.

So .... who do we want for the Villa manager's job .... Parmenides or Heraclitus?

[Hoof hearted]

28 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I don't take it personally chief, and even if I did I'm made of sterner stuff than to get 'upset' about it, frustrating maybe, but not taking anything to heart

I know I can be wrong, I've been wrong as many times as I've been right and probably more in truth, that doesn't mean I won't stand up for what I believe in - which, incidentally is not Bruce but rather some semblance of a balanced and reasonable debate.

Totally agree and understand that but even the blindest of followers of Bruce have to understand that he is not the answer long term, I won't be overjoyed if we lose the next 3 and he gets sacked, as I (and you have stated also), want to win every game and it is quite possible Bruce will manage that.

But! If we somehow get out this league with Bruce and his style of play (whatever the fudge that is) I'll bet my middle knacker we will get mullered every single week up there. Cardiff will experience this under Warnock (spawned from the same batch of dinosaur eggs), because stability and a strong dressing room ethos will only get you so far, teams need an actual game plan and under Bruce we just never seem to have one bar the bigger games which always bring about another false dawn under him (see last season and repeat).

[VILLAMARV]

6 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

I think it's time to elevate this thread to a philosophical level.

Two philosophers were contemporaries 2,500 years ago.

Parmenides coined the phrase: "What is - is", meaning change was impossible.

Heraclitus on the other hand coined the phrase: "No man steps in the same river twice, because it's not the same river and he's not the same man", meaning that ever present change was essential to the essence of the universe.

So .... who do we want for the Villa manager's job .... Parmenides or Heraclitus?

average male day has no chance if there's a clit involved

[DaveAV1]

5 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Great if you believe that.

I don't. I think it was clear last season that there were posters here who praised victories through gritted teeth. Even if we won a game well they'd be picking faults because they couldn't bear to give Bruce credit.

And it was clear that some posters reveled in us losing because it made them right about Bruce.

You're not allowed to say that. People will reply to this with faux outrage at the very suggestion that that could be the case. But we all know it's true.

I’ve never been so furious in my life. How very, very dare you!! I’m spitting feathers, and not faux feathers either, these were hand plucked this very afternoon from a passing headless chicken. 

You sir are a bounder!!

Outraged of The Highlands!!

[villabromsgrove]

5 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

average male day has no chance if there's a clit involved

I see what you did there. So that's another for Bruce out then.

[sne]

Winning the battle but losing the war pretty much.

For me it's all about long term success (as in getting the h**l out of this league) and I don't see us doing that under Bruce.

And that's been the same since after that horrid spell in January 2016. After that I've been convinced we won't do it under him.

Now as much as I enjoy us winning on a fairly regular basis, in the end it means f all if we don't get promoted.

Especially since I don't enjoy watching the type of football we serve up on a fairly regular basis.

 

[VILLAMARV]

Just now, villabromsgrove said:

I see what you did there. So that's another for Bruce out then.

Just trying to lower the tone

[srsmithusa]

22 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

I think it's time to elevate this thread to a philosophical level.

Two philosophers were contemporaries 2,500 years ago.

Parmenides coined the phrase: "What is - is", meaning change was impossible.

Heraclitus on the other hand coined the phrase: "No man steps in the same river twice, because it's not the same river and he's not the same man", meaning that ever present change was essential to the essence of the universe.

So .... who do we want for the Villa manager's job .... Parmenides or Heraclitus?

Parmenides had a terrible record in the Greek league which only has one real team.  And Heraclitus will never come here, you’re dreaming. 

[DaveAV1]

26 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I think, with all due respect guys, you probably don't see what I and a few others see in these posts because it largely aligns with the narrative you've bought into.

Its often subtle but it's always there, you only have to look at how many other threads get hijacked by a SB out debate to know this. 

Just today, there have been posts suggesting that the non-signing of a CB can only mean one of two things, both options were derogatory and/or sinister, as though they are the only two possible options. 

Then there's people hoping we don't sign Terry (despite the fact it would almost certainly benefit the club) on the basis that it would aid the Manager. 

It's not one or two people, it's all day every day and has been for a long time, I just don't think you see it because it feeds into what you want to see. 

Tis my view. 

I think sinister is a bit strong, but I admit myself that at times it’s easy to focus on Bruce for anything that goes wrong. I certainly want JT to sign, but I blame SB for putting us in this position. However the blame is probably not all to be laid at his door, none of us know the full story about anything that happens behind closed doors. 

Only this morning I accused the wife of setting the breakfast table too defensively. The bowls were too deep and she left it late to put the toaster on. 

I’m not obsessed, I’m just intensely concerned. Now where did I leave my pills?

[srsmithusa]

36 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I think, with all due respect guys, you probably don't see what I and a few others see in these posts because it largely aligns with the narrative you've bought into.

Its often subtle but it's always there, you only have to look at how many other threads get hijacked by a SB out debate to know this. 

Just today, there have been posts suggesting that the non-signing of a CB can only mean one of two things, both options were derogatory and/or sinister, as though they are the only two possible options. 

Then there's people hoping we don't sign Terry (despite the fact it would almost certainly benefit the club) on the basis that it would aid the Manager. 

It's not one or two people, it's all day every day and has been for a long time, I just don't think you see it because it feeds into what you want to see. 

Tis my view. 

Sensible post.  But I think it happens both ways.  I don’t think you realize the tortured attempts to relieve the manager of responsibility and hush up his critics that are, in my view, equally endless and pop up in every thread.

But maybe we both expect too much of a fan forum.   

[Lerner's Driver]

15 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

And Heraclitus will never come here, you’re dreaming. 

All talking of coming is premature until we actually find Heraclitus.

[weedman]

1 hour ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Spurs, as far as know, didn't loan out a player that plays in the position they are weakest in either. 

Man Utd did... 

[AJ]

41 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

All talking of coming is premature until we actually find Heraclitus.

I don't want Heraclitus as our manager.

He encourages our players to go down in the box.

[TRO]

13 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Tro, your pun jokes are like a Villa, throw - in, cringe inducing.

Got to have something to occupy my mind.....cuz football ain't doing it.

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Hoof hearted said:

Totally agree and understand that but even the blindest of followers of Bruce have to understand that he is not the answer long term, I won't be overjoyed if we lose the next 3 and he gets sacked, as I (and you have stated also), want to win every game and it is quite possible Bruce will manage that.

But! If we somehow get out this league with Bruce and his style of play (whatever the fudge that is) I'll bet my middle knacker we will get mullered every single week up there. Cardiff will experience this under Warnock (spawned from the same batch of dinosaur eggs), because stability and a strong dressing room ethos will only get you so far, teams need an actual game plan and under Bruce we just never seem to have one bar the bigger games which always bring about another false dawn under him (see last season and repeat).

I came so close to liking this but as per the post you replied to, those subtle (or perhaps, not so subtle) undertones just shine through again.

'followers of Bruce', 'dinosaur eggs'

It's like people literally cannot help themselves.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Hoof hearted said:

Totally agree and understand that but even the blindest of followers of Bruce have to understand that he is not the answer long term, I won't be overjoyed if we lose the next 3 and he gets sacked, as I (and you have stated also), want to win every game and it is quite possible Bruce will manage that.

But! If we somehow get out this league with Bruce and his style of play (whatever the fudge that is) I'll bet my middle knacker we will get mullered every single week up there. Cardiff will experience this under Warnock (spawned from the same batch of dinosaur eggs), because stability and a strong dressing room ethos will only get you so far, teams need an actual game plan and under Bruce we just never seem to have one bar the bigger games which always bring about another false dawn under him (see last season and repeat).

just being devils advocate.....but what if?

we get a new man in, who plays with a game plan and a style to suit and plays with a progressive philosophy, but fails to unite the dressing room and has no affect on stability.

The thing is IMO.....we need a bit of everything.....one bit of criteria is not enough....we need a whole skill set, they are not easy to find.

We look at Swansea....Haven't they had managers with all the skills you allude to.....Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup...etc

It hasn't done them a lot of good in the long term.

Edited September 7, 2018 by TRO

[WakefieldVillan]

Up until the Burton and Sheffield United games I have been one of the Bruce-In camp, this was mainly due to the fact I felt that having stability going into the new season would work in our favour and I was more concerned with what replacement we would get in as opposed to seeing Bruce as some kind of Messiah!

I like Bruce, he seems a good guy & I think he brought what we needed after Di Matteo was fired, BUT, this has been a poor start to the season, the results have been poor, the football even worse and I think it is criminal the state our defence has been left in going into this campaign, the last thing you would expect from an ex centre half and that of a Bruce side.

I feel he is underachieving with one of the strongest squads in the league (defence aside), the football is poor (most of the time), there is no real style of play, he is playing players out of position and first time I have said this, but I think it's time for a change! 

 

  

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

I must be missing something here.Our last 5 managers have been McStupid ( who was pathetic ) P.Lambert ( who was only a little bit better ) Tim Sherwood ( who got us to the FA cup where we got thrashed ) Remi Garde ( who threw up when he realised what was needed ) Di Mateo ( who spent bucket loads of $$$ for players like Richards and McCormack ) and now we have Bruce ( who has got the dressing room together,has got us playing some decent football and got us to a play off spot last term ) and we are slagging him off.The above list does not include our tempory managers, like Eric Black. 

You have to realise that we are not hoing to get a Guardiola or a Klopp and reading the above, Bruce looks quite good to me.
I have to add that he is not my favourite choice as manager but you have to cut your cloth etc.

This again, you are correct.

IF we delve into the footballing twilight zone where the only choices are Bruce, (The past failing managers you have mentioned which literally have zero leverage in the discussion), Klopp or Guardiola, Bruce looks realistic/good.

Problem is we live in the real world where there are literally hundreds if not thousands of modern managers who could do a better job with the resources Bruce has had at his disposal.

Which leads me to repeating my old line "Take the 6 managers which have been promoted over the past 2 seasons for example, simply as a starting point".

4 or 5 of them from arguably smaller teams too!

This is one of those horrendous excuses/arguments which keeps raring its head.

Edited September 7, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[srsmithusa]

so, it sounds like we have moved past bruce in v bruce out.  we have moved to:

how reasonable vs how unfair other posters have been in this thread.  Who cares from a "success of Villa" perspective?  It makes no difference to our results or performances.

What replacement would come with a full guarantee that the new person will be experienced, young, tactically genius, great man manger, has a vision, able to coach that vision into the team, able to win the champions league if not already having done so, experienced in championship, premiership, and champions league, photogenic, has never had a bad team, season, or result?  (Ridiculous overstatement intended)  My point is, Bruce is not at all likely to see us forward to promotion or substantial progress in performances and therefore, in the long run, results.   So, some risk is perfectly reasonable.  We don't have a bird in the hand (IMO of course).