Steve Bruce

[VILLAMARV]

Hang on lets not go too far off on one GH had loads of reasons and they were well understood by plenty of people

The point is surely that the reasoning has been done to death, history is repeating itself and everyone is a bit twitchy.

One mans bad start and wobble in the middle is another mans needing to bed in transfers over and after the windows n that.

Bad results against Blackburn and Rotherham and he's gone. But then we've been here before aswell haven't we.....

[Keyblade]

6 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

Hang on lets not go too far off on one GH had loads of reasons and they were well understood by plenty of people

The point is surely that the reasoning has been done to death, history is repeating itself and everyone is a bit twitchy.

One mans bad start and wobble in the middle is another mans needing to bed in transfers over and after the windows n that.

Bad results against Blackburn and Rotherham and he's gone. But then we've been here before aswell haven't we.....

This thread:

[VILLAMARV]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

This thread:

[sne]

So we all agree Bruce will remain, we will win a couple of games, hope will rekindle and people will return to their long standing stances on Bruce.

We will then amble along doing OK, neither great nor terrible and come January we will come to a stuttering halt, at which point this will all repeat itself once again.

[VILLAMARV]

TFI gifday

[praisedmambo]

9 minutes ago, sne said:

So we all agree Bruce will remain, we will win a couple of games, hope will rekindle and people will return to their long standing stances on Bruce.

We will then amble along doing OK, neither great nor terrible and come January we will come to a stuttering halt, at which point this will all repeat itself once again.

The one variable that's changed this groundhog year is the location of our major weakness. Last year we had a deficiency of strikers for what felt like an eternity and this year we have the same thing but with the defense. I feel exactly as I did post-Cardiff, and I'm expecting Sheffield United to go up and us to waste another year.

[sne]

3 minutes ago, praisedmambo said:

The one variable that's changed this groundhog year is the location of our major weakness. Last year we had a deficiency of strikers for what felt like an eternity and this year we have the same thing but with the defense. I feel exactly as I did post-Cardiff, and I'm expecting Sheffield United to go up and us to waste another year.

And the first year it was midfielders, although I blame that squarely on RDM and the people handling our transfers that summer.

From January and on thou, that's on Bruce.

[VILLAMARV]

[Keyblade]

20 minutes ago, sne said:

So we all agree Bruce will remain, we will win a couple of games, hope will rekindle and people will return to their long standing stances on Bruce.

We will then amble along doing OK, neither great nor terrible and come January we will come to a stuttering halt, at which point this will all repeat itself once again.

This is gonna go on forever

I honestly would prefer if we were just bad as opposed to just barely good enough to go on to the next game, repeating an endless cycle. 

[bannedfromHandV]

3 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

This is gonna go on forever

I honestly would prefer if we were just bad as opposed to just barely good enough to go on to the next game, repeating an endless cycle. 

Or, ya know, you could prefer that we just sorted our shit out, started playing the way we know we should, can and have at times, and get promoted.

Not all roads have to lead to failure and sacking the Manager, believe it or not.

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Or, ya know, you could prefer that we just sorted our shit out, started playing the way we know we should, can and have at times, and get promoted.

Not all roads have to lead to failure and sacking the Manager, believe it or not.

And when's that gonna kick in, it's been 2 years man  

I mean obviously I would prefer that. But I would also prefer to be dating Rihanna and I don't see that happening any time soon either  

[praisedmambo]

4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Or, ya know, you could prefer that we just sorted our shit out, started playing the way we know we should, can and have at times, and get promoted.

Not all roads have to lead to failure and sacking the Manager, believe it or not.

I was on your side of the fence until the weekend, but I've fallen over now. I have fallen over in a similar way before and gone back to sitting probably right in the middle of the fence, but that Guardian article from Bruce's time at Sunderland is haunting me. It haunted me when I read it a year ago too. Every single complaint about Bruce in that article is happening at Villa, from the massive turnover of players, to the absolute lack of control over games, players being played out of position, CBs being played as right backs leading to no attacking presence down the right. We need a damn fine run over the next few games to convince me, even a little, that our problems are solely down to the problems in the summer and not also the manager. He did a good job stabalising the ship, but I just don't know if we're the right fit for him now. He's got a few games to prove otherwise and I'm open minded that our one league defeat could be an exception rather than a rule. Hopefully Abrahams and Bolasie have a decent impact. But if we don't pick up I hope we have someone more tactical and progressive to come in.

[villabromsgrove]

Stevo,

I want Bruce out because I believe he's holding my club back.

I don't want Bruce out because I dislike him as a person, I want him out because I don't think he's very good at what he does.

I gave Bruce a very good rating after the Brentford game, and I posted to say how much I enjoyed that match, and yet you deny that "Bruce outers" give Steve praise when things occasionally go well.

I hear you say Stevo that you want Bruce out, and then you add that Bruce "knows what he's doing even if it isn't good enough"!

It appears that your argument is with posters who hold the same views as you, but choose to express them in a way that you deem unacceptable. Have I got this right?

[TheStagMan]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

No they didn't.

It's looking likely that they were right that bruce wouldn't get us promoted.

But they weren't right in all the nonsense that made them spout.

Was Grashopper right when he slated Bruce after every single game. Even games that we won 5-0 and 4-1? Was he ****.

 

Again it goes back to my point all along. Wanting Bruce out is fine. I want Bruce out.
But having that opinion cloud your judgement so that you think everything Bruce does is bad is nonsense and tiresome. There are posters here who will never give credit to Bruce. There's posters that have openly admitted this.
it's like there are posters that are afraid if they credit Bruce with anything it will weaken their "bruce out" stance.

Black and White VT. It's ok to want bruce out but accept when he does good things. The guy isn't a moron. He knows what he's doing even if it's not good enough. People talk on here like he's a bloke who's wandered in off the street and does everything by accident.

Well if you want to be pedantic. 

When people were saying that Bruce would not get us promoted, clearly they were referring to last season. And they were right. I wish they weren't (myself included) as it would mean that we were in the prem. 

Please don't group everyone that criticized Bruce with Grasshopper. The vast majority of people who were criticizing were criticizing things that they observed in the games, even the wins. This criticism is valid.

 

I'll just comment on your last bit in bold.....

His selections this season and the lack of CB's is absolutely baffling and would lead to one of two conclusions - 1) he is a moron or 2) he does know what he is doing and that is taking massive risks to prove a point. In Either case he has to go.

 

[bannedfromHandV]

14 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

Well if you want to be pedantic. 

When people were saying that Bruce would not get us promoted, clearly they were referring to last season. And they were right. I wish they weren't (myself included) as it would mean that we were in the prem. 

Please don't group everyone that criticized Bruce with Grasshopper. The vast majority of people who were criticizing were criticizing things that they observed in the games, even the wins. This criticism is valid.

 

I'll just comment on your last bit in bold.....

His selections this season and the lack of CB's is absolutely baffling and would lead to one of two conclusions - 1) he is a moron or 2) he does know what he is doing and that is taking massive risks to prove a point. In Either case he has to go.

 

Why do the only two options have to be sinister? 

We know we tried to sign a CB, we also know that nothing is certain with transfers, ask Spurs. 

[Stevo985]

29 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

Stevo,

I want Bruce out because I believe he's holding my club back.

I don't want Bruce out because I dislike him as a person, I want him out because I don't think he's very good at what he does.

I gave Bruce a very good rating after the Brentford game, and I posted to say how much I enjoyed that match, and yet you deny that "Bruce outers" give Steve praise when things occasionally go well.

I hear you say Stevo that you want Bruce out, and then you add that Bruce "knows what he's doing even if it isn't good enough"!

It appears that your argument is with posters who hold the same views as you, but choose to express them in a way that you deem unacceptable. Have I got this right?

 

Firstly I never said anything about liking or disliking him as a person. None of us know him as a person. it has nothing to do with it.

Secondly, you said

Quote

you deny that "Bruce outers" give Steve praise when things occasionally go well.

No I don't. I said that SOME posters don't give him praise. I made no sweeping generalisations about people who want Bruce out. Again, and I don't know how I can make this any clearer, I WANT BRUCE OUT. I am a "Bruce Outer" if you want to give it a cringey nickname.

 

As for your final question no you haven't got it right. My entire point is this:

Wanting Bruce out is not Binary. It can go from a scale of something like "on the fence but just swaying into wanting him gone territory", to "want him gone with no question regardless of any consequences. Out out out get him out at all costs". Just because I want him out and avfcrigo wants him out for example, doesn't mean we share the same opinion except for that one very specific question.

I think most people acknowledge that even though Bruce should go, he does some good things, some bad things, some excellent things, some terrible things. He's human.
Personally I think the guy is obviously a good manager at this level. He's been left behind slightly by the game and he's not as effective as he used to be.
He SHOULD have got us promoted last season, and despite serving up a very enjoyable season (imo), ultimately it wasn't good enough and I think we should have got someone else in to have a go (financial issues aside, that complicates things)
He's still here which is not what I want, but if he is here for the season I think we'll have a decent go at promotion but ultimately fall short again. Some people may be more critical of him than that, some people less so.

 

HOWEVER, I think there are some posters/fans who want Bruce out so badly that they turn every thing the manager does into a negative. Everything he says is bad, everything he does is bad. Every goal scored is luck, every goal conceded is Bruce's fault. Every good signing wasn't him, every bad signing was him. Every player that improves was a coincidence, every player that deteriorates is bruce's bad coaching. Every good bit of football is down to the players and not the manager, every bad bit of football is down to Bruceball.
They treat bruce as if he is clueless. As if he doesn't have a clue how to be a manager despite having a had a pretty decent 20 year career doing just that. They exaggerate every negative to the point where if you read this thread you'd think we finished last season bottom.

It's these latter posters that I have a problem with. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Stevo985

[Hoof hearted]

All that text though! 

[VILLAMARV]

2 minutes ago, Hoof hearted said:

All that text though! 

[PussEKatt]

I must be missing something here.Our last 5 managers have been McStupid ( who was pathetic ) P.Lambert ( who was only a little bit better ) Tim Sherwood ( who got us to the FA cup where we got thrashed ) Remi Garde ( who threw up when he realised what was needed ) Di Mateo ( who spent bucket loads of $$$ for players like Richards and McCormack ) and now we have Bruce ( who has got the dressing room together,has got us playing some decent football and got us to a play off spot last term ) and we are slagging him off.The above list does not include our tempory managers, like Eric Black. 

You have to realise that we are not hoing to get a Guardiola or a Klopp and reading the above, Bruce looks quite good to me.
I have to add that he is not my favourite choice as manager but you have to cut your cloth etc.

[Villan_of_oz]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Nothing more "black and white" than griping about the extreme and extrapolating their position to a large chunk of people who don't even hold it.

Yeah there were people like Grasshopper, but the majority of people who want Bruce out can and have provided well reasoned arguments in support of their position. 

Exactly, I find it ludicrous and insulting that because I want him out, I dislike Bruce therefore I'm blinded to the fact that he is a good manager.

I like the bloke, and I'll like him even more when he isn't managing the club I love.

Before the season started, when it looked like he might go.... I even wrote a post thanking him for the good work he had done.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Villan_of_oz