Steve Bruce

[villakram]

The magic of the world cup is not finished, so I'm simply pretending Villa.... lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala 

Dear Mr. Bruce, please don't poo in my world by hanging around when it's over, things are bad enough as it is. 

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

Given that some individuals were screaming for the manager’s head for the whole of last season, whatever the results, and have been doing the same throughout the closed season so far, I would be amazed if it took until a few games in for the same individuals to be screaming for his head.

And last season we had a half decent team, yet the football flattered to deceive. I really don't think we'll be deceived this coming season, I imagine the football to be about exciting as Sunday Mass, and I for one, will be joining in the chorus of, " off with his head ".

[DCJonah]

21 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

If you put yourself in his shoes, what would keep you here?

The Director of Football, a man respected in the game, experienced in coaching, management and the business of football, the man that recommended  Bruce and one of his key allies behind the scenes - responsible for the scouting, the management of the physios, the data team, the logistics of managing the footballers outside of training and matches has gone - to be replaced by a chap who finished his degree two years ago and is in position here by virtue of speaking the same language as the owner.

The CEO has gone, the man responsible for Bruce's budgets, for contracts, but helping the club generate the money that allows for a better squad, and the man that hired Bruce, a man that he could work with - replaced by an absent owner or his HR Director, neither of whom would claim to have the connections or the relevant experience to do the job full time.

His squad, minus seven or eight of the players he had last year, with no real chance of replacements on the horizon, short in a number of key areas and at risk in any area of strength to bids by those that recognise our need to sell to survive.

A fan base hoping for the playoffs against a background that suggests we should be holding out for survival in this league - the expectation of booing starting in around October as those particular chickens come home to roost and inevitable turning on Bruce as the only figurehead available for anger.

I can't think of any reason why Steve Bruce, or any other manager worth their salt would want to be here right now and I genuinely fear for what we'd replace him with, or what we could afford to replace him with. 

There's a vacuum at Villa Park right now, no leadership, no planning, no money - Bruce would leave another hole - and it's a worry.

I wonder if Mark Delaney would fancy the job?

 

Then why is he here?

Big money? Ready made excuses. It's an easy win to hang on till sacked. Shit football and results will be spun by his media pals and he gets a massive payout. 

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Given that some individuals were screaming for the manager’s head for the whole of last season, whatever the results, and have been doing the same throughout the closed season so far, I would be amazed if it took until a few games in for the same individuals to be screaming for his head.

Were they not the ones ultimately proved right? 

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

If you put yourself in his shoes, what would keep you here?

The Director of Football, a man respected in the game, experienced in coaching, management and the business of football, the man that recommended  Bruce and one of his key allies behind the scenes - responsible for the scouting, the management of the physios, the data team, the logistics of managing the footballers outside of training and matches has gone - to be replaced by a chap who finished his degree two years ago and is in position here by virtue of speaking the same language as the owner.

The CEO has gone, the man responsible for Bruce's budgets, for contracts, but helping the club generate the money that allows for a better squad, and the man that hired Bruce, a man that he could work with - replaced by an absent owner or his HR Director, neither of whom would claim to have the connections or the relevant experience to do the job full time.

His squad, minus seven or eight of the players he had last year, with no real chance of replacements on the horizon, short in a number of key areas and at risk in any area of strength to bids by those that recognise our need to sell to survive.

A fan base hoping for the playoffs against a background that suggests we should be holding out for survival in this league - the expectation of booing starting in around October as those particular chickens come home to roost and inevitable turning on Bruce as the only figurehead available for anger.

I can't think of any reason why Steve Bruce, or any other manager worth their salt would want to be here right now and I genuinely fear for what we'd replace him with, or what we could afford to replace him with. 

 

He could see it like that or you could see it as a huge challenge in managing the biggest club in the division through some very stormy waters and over achieving with the resources he has available. Cardiff massively overachieved last season on resources that suggested they should finish mid table yet they finished second. Preston, Brentford, Millwall competed for the play offs on resources that suggested they should be fighting for survival.

I think you might be over playing Bruce's hand here in terms of why he should hang around. I don't know where he would go. He wouldn't get a Premier League job and he wouldn't get a job at one of the bigger/more fancied clubs this season in the Championship. He would have to wait a few months until a manager was sacked and then step in much as he did with us.

I genuinely don't know if I want him to hang around or not. I don't know if he is the man to get the best out of the younger lads we are likely to be heavily reliant on or whether he will begrudgingly play them whilst whinging that he has no choice. On the other hand if he does go I don't have a clue who we would bring in and whether or not we have the resources to attract anyone other than an out of work known failure.

In an ideal world I would want him to knuckle down, face the challenge head on, create a backs to the wall us against the world mentality , embrace playing a number of our very promising youngsters and go into the season with a positive approach. The chances of that happening though seem very slim.

Edited July 4, 2018 by markavfc40

[striker]

Still feel Aston Villa is a great opportunity for Bruce to enhance his reputation if the approach is right for the new season.

If Warnock can get bang average Cardiff automatic promotion then Bruce should still be able to get Villa into sixth and playoffs again.

 

[OutByEaster?]

43 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Then why is he here?

Big money? Ready made excuses. It's an easy win to hang on till sacked. Shit football and results will be spun by his media pals and he gets a massive payout. 

It's a very good question and one I think that might be clearer in the next week or so. At this point, unless he's hanging on for the payout I'm struggling on why he's here- personally I think he might decide to leave in the next few days.

 

[OutByEaster?]

15 minutes ago, striker said:

Still feel Aston Villa is a great opportunity for Bruce to enhance his reputation if the approach is right for the new season.

If Warnock can get bang average Cardiff automatic promotion then Bruce should still be able to get Villa into sixth and playoffs again.

 

Cardiffs wage bill was £29m last year - for comparison Fulham's was £37m - Wolves was £28m. Ours was £61m. It's no wonder we're in trouble.

Unless there's a takeover, I think a playoff tilt is an unrealistic expectation - in fact, with a takeover I think it's a pretty unrealistic expectation. FFP means you can't make a quick bounce recovery.

 

 

[mykeyb]

He is waiting for a payoff or a takeover and then a payoff

[TheStagMan]

3 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Given that some individuals were screaming for the manager’s head for the whole of last season, whatever the results, and have been doing the same throughout the closed season so far, I would be amazed if it took until a few games in for the same individuals to be screaming for his head.

And look where his failure to gain promotion has left us.

[TheStagMan]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

If you put yourself in his shoes, what would keep you here?

The Director of Football, a man respected in the game, experienced in coaching, management and the business of football, the man that recommended  Bruce and one of his key allies behind the scenes - responsible for the scouting, the management of the physios, the data team, the logistics of managing the footballers outside of training and matches has gone - to be replaced by a chap who finished his degree two years ago and is in position here by virtue of speaking the same language as the owner.

The CEO has gone, the man responsible for Bruce's budgets, for contracts, but helping the club generate the money that allows for a better squad, and the man that hired Bruce, a man that he could work with - replaced by an absent owner or his HR Director, neither of whom would claim to have the connections or the relevant experience to do the job full time.

His squad, minus seven or eight of the players he had last year, with no real chance of replacements on the horizon, short in a number of key areas and at risk in any area of strength to bids by those that recognise our need to sell to survive.

A fan base hoping for the playoffs against a background that suggests we should be holding out for survival in this league - the expectation of booing starting in around October as those particular chickens come home to roost and inevitable turning on Bruce as the only figurehead available for anger.

I can't think of any reason why Steve Bruce, or any other manager worth their salt would want to be here right now and I genuinely fear for what we'd replace him with, or what we could afford to replace him with. 

There's a vacuum at Villa Park right now, no leadership, no planning, no money - Bruce would leave another hole - and it's a worry.

I wonder if Mark Delaney would fancy the job?

 

You are giving the CEO and DOF way too much credit there. Both presided over the shambles we have become.

[OutByEaster?]

5 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

You are giving the CEO and DOF way too much credit there. Both presided over the shambles we have become.

They certainly did - but the point was what they're responsible for and where that responsibility now lies - I think it's very difficult indeed to say they did those things well, but they were responsible for those things; they were also Bruce's advocates.

 

[weedman]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Were they not the ones ultimately proved right? 

This is a terrible way of thinking, simply picking a position and sticking to it relentlessly regardless of what is happening is wrong, even if it turns out to be right in the end, making an informed desision based on what is happening is the right way to go, even if you turn out to be wrong in the end 

Claiming that we had "no chance of being promoted with this dinosaur in charge" 3 games into the season was wrong, even though we didn't end up getting promoted, whereas stating "its not pretty but we're doing well, comfortably in the top 6 and have a good chance of getting promoted" was correct, even though we ultimately fell short 

Ever since I can remember people are so desperate to not be "fickle" and to be proved "right" that they make definitive statements ridiculously early, have absolutely no intention of ever changing their mind regardless of any circumstances then use illogical confirmation bias to try and drum that standpoint home for as long as possible before declaring themselves victorious over all the "idiots" who kept an open mind. 

As an example I'd bet that if there was a genuine Man City fan who was dead against Pep Guardiola before he joined them, that person will still be dead against him now, despite his huge success there, and why? Because changing your mind is weak, fickle and would mean you have to admit being wrong to start with 

[DCJonah]

9 minutes ago, weedman said:

This is a terrible way of thinking, simply picking a position and sticking to it relentlessly regardless of what is happening is wrong, even if it turns out to be right in the end, making an informed desision based on what is happening is the right way to go, even if you turn out to be wrong in the end 

Claiming that we had "no chance of being promoted with this dinosaur in charge" 3 games into the season was wrong, even though we didn't end up getting promoted, whereas stating "its not pretty but we're doing well, comfortably in the top 6 and have a good chance of getting promoted" was correct, even though we ultimately fell short 

Ever since I can remember people are so desperate to not be "fickle" and to be proved "right" that they make definitive statements ridiculously early, have absolutely no intention of ever changing their mind regardless of any circumstances then use illogical confirmation bias to try and drum that standpoint home for as long as possible before declaring themselves victorious over all the "idiots" who kept an open mind. 

As an example I'd bet that if there was a genuine Man City fan who was dead against Pep Guardiola before he joined them, that person will still be dead against him now, despite his huge success there, and why? Because changing your mind is weak, fickle and would mean you have to admit being wrong to start with 

Agree with a lot of this. My opinion changed massively over the course of the season. I just don't think you can mock people who were convinced, stood by their opinion and ultimately were proved right. 

You claim its illogical and desperate not to look fickle but that's an incredibly dismissive view and is as pathetic as the one you describe in your post. Lots of people gave very logical and reasoned arguments as to why they felt bruce would fail and why their opinion didn't change even when results improved. You choosing to belittle and dismiss them doesn't make it so.

 

[briny_ear]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Were they not the ones ultimately proved right? 

That wasn’t what my post was about - it was about the disingenuity of someone pretending  that the individuals who constantly criticise Bruce would have a pause at the start of a new season.

If he’s around, they won’t.

I will be amazed however if he doesn't resign this week or early next. The club doesn’t have much to offer a manager by way of structure, planning or resources at the moment.

Edited July 4, 2018 by briny_ear

[Vive_La_Villa]

17 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

That wasn’t what my post was about - it was about the disingenuity of someone pretending  that the individuals who constantly criticise Bruce would have a pause at the start of a new season.

If he’s around, they won’t.

I will be amazed however if he doesn't resign this week or early next. The club doesn’t have much to offer a manager by way of structure, planning or resources at the moment.

He won’t resign. No manager does these days. Better to get sacked and get a payoff. 

[briny_ear]

22 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He won’t resign. No manager does these days. Better to get sacked and get a payoff. 

My thinking is that every manager will have in their contract a commitment from the club to provide an adequate level of funding and infrastructure support to enable the manager to maintain an effective squad. If the club don’t provide that, a manager who quits as a result will  bid for compensation due to failure to meet the contractual commitments, and negotiate a settlement.

Maybe Bruce has been waiting for someone to tell him about next season’s plans. The number of people who could tell him has been dwindling week by week 

[TRO]

43 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He won’t resign. No manager does these days. Better to get sacked and get a payoff. 

I think he walked out on Hull......and O'Neill did on us.....i think Warnock did on Crystal Palace too.

Edited July 4, 2018 by TRO

[TheAuthority]

2 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Maybe Bruce has been waiting for someone to tell him about next season’s plans. The number of people who could tell him has been dwindling week by week 

Plenty on VT who can tell him all about it though 

[ciggiesnbeer]

6 hours ago, striker said:

Still feel Aston Villa is a great opportunity for Bruce to enhance his reputation if the approach is right for the new season.

If Warnock can get bang average Cardiff automatic promotion then Bruce should still be able to get Villa into sixth and playoffs again.

 

Cardiff is a better run club than Aston Villa. I cant believe I just typed that and its true. jesus what a state.