hippo Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I don't think he's to bad to be honest. His strength is headers and tackles - his distribution can be poor at times. I actually think the problem is more the forward line. Sure the midfield isn't great, but weve talked ourself into a scenario where the midfielders should deliver the ball to the forwards three foot from an open goal - all the striker has to do is tap the ball into an empty net ! In reality the strikers still have to beat a man then get the shot on target. Only kjodia is doing that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 16, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2017 His distribution is poor but he shouldn't have to do it. He should be in there to win headers and tackles, which he does. If we had two more midfielders around him capable of bringing the ball forward and feeding the attack he would be fine. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, kurtsimonw said: Agreed. To really hit home the point, average passes per game: Jedinak - 49 Tshibola - 32 Westwood - 29 Gardner - 26 I'll also add - Jedinak assists, 2. Others mentioned above combined assists, 0. As DCJ said, he has a role, he does it and he doesn't try to hide or pass the book. Yep. So on average Jedinak completes more passes to his team mates than any other midfield player. I really don't think Jedinak is the problem here. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 7 hours ago, Skills said: I think you've inadvertently solved the problem without even knowing it... have highlighted it in red for ya I don't get it. Because someone else lost the ball, Jedinak should do nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 hours ago, DCJonah said: Yep. So on average Jedinak completes more passes to his team mates than any other midfield player. I really don't think Jedinak is the problem here. How many are forward passes though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 16, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: His distribution is poor but he shouldn't have to do it. He should be in there to win headers and tackles, which he does. If we had two more midfielders around him capable of bringing the ball forward and feeding the attack he would be fine. Very much this. In the Aussie national side he has 2 of Mooy, Rogic or Luongo to dump it off to and looks 10 times better than he does in a Villa shirt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, bobzy said: How many are forward passes though? Looking at his stats, 74% of them are forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 37 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Looking at his stats, 74% of them are forward. Gah, looks like the dancing trollface didn't post properly from my phone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 He may complete more passes, but that doesn't mean he doesn't give the ball away more than the others though. A truer stat to look at would be pass completion rate. To be fair to the bloke, its not really his job to be making killer goal crating passes. His job is to win it and give it to somebody who's made a bit of space for himself in anticipation of him winning the ball. I'm happy for him to stay in the team if we can replace the 2 he plays with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Just absolutely woeful by Jedinak. He's ball watching - lets a midfield runner just go straight past him and score (not great from Tshibola(?) either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 No, I will not accept that his role "is just to win aerial battles and break up attacks", he is a MIDFIELDER. So whether he is defensive or attacking he has more to his role than that and both of them require the skill to PASS! If he can't pass he's just a body on the park. If people think that is genuinely his role then he can be replaced even more easily than I thought - shove a defender up there. Our defenders could win aerial battles and make interceptions in the middle of the park. The difference is they could all possibly pass successfully, or track a runner or keep up with play. So it's solved; I'd rather the useless Elphick, crocked Richards or even Hutton in that position if we can get a RB, they all would offer more than Jedinak does. How low have we sunk that we think it's acceptable to have a midfielder who can't pass?! I'd question that of a Sunday League team. Defenders may have to hoof it clear, attackers may be selfish but a midfielder PASSES - whether they be short, long, defensive, attacking, sideways... but should be hitting a minimum of 75% successfully. Not reguarly under 60% to as low as 39%....39%! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, bobzy said: Just absolutely woeful by Jedinak. He's ball watching - lets a midfield runner just go straight past him and score (not great from Tshibola(?) either). It's Tshibola's man. He has a run on Jedi and there's not much time between him going past him and putting the ball in the net. A combination of hilarious awfulness from Amavi, Johnstone and Tshibola for that one. If Jedinak made the move towards the box and the ball came out to his man, who he had just left, then he'd be getting more stick (and rightfully so). Edited January 16, 2017 by kurtsimonw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 hours ago, Stevo985 said: His distribution is poor but he shouldn't have to do it. He should be in there to win headers and tackles, which he does. If we had two more midfielders around him capable of bringing the ball forward and feeding the attack he would be fine. You're right but this underscores how 1D he is and maybe we need better all rounders in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 hours ago, jackbauer24 said: No, I will not accept that his role "is just to win aerial battles and break up attacks", he is a MIDFIELDER. So whether he is defensive or attacking he has more to his role than that and both of them require the skill to PASS! If he can't pass he's just a body on the park. If people think that is genuinely his role then he can be replaced even more easily than I thought - shove a defender up there. Our defenders could win aerial battles and make interceptions in the middle of the park. The difference is they could all possibly pass successfully, or track a runner or keep up with play. So it's solved; I'd rather the useless Elphick, crocked Richards or even Hutton in that position if we can get a RB, they all would offer more than Jedinak does. How low have we sunk that we think it's acceptable to have a midfielder who can't pass?! I'd question that of a Sunday League team. Defenders may have to hoof it clear, attackers may be selfish but a midfielder PASSES - whether they be short, long, defensive, attacking, sideways... but should be hitting a minimum of 75% successfully. Not reguarly under 60% to as low as 39%....39%! Jedinak could get 80% passing if he wants. He could pass the book like other midfielders and make the short ball, or pass it off to a centre back. But he plays the ball forward, he tries to make things happen. There's a reason he has 2 assists compared to the 0 from our other CMs. Look at the 2nd Blackburn goal, a great ball through to Kodjia - do our other CMs even try that? No, they'd have just looked left for Amavi. 80% of his pass against Wolves were forward passes (to Tshibola's 67%). In the previous game, against Cardiff, only 58% of Westwood and Gardner's passes were forward. His passing isn't great, I don't argue that, but if you're going to look at him in a statistical manner, then you have to take other stats in to consideration. Gardner and Westwood's passing looks better because anyone can play simple balls, the fact they're both only around the 80% mark is a little frightening when you consider the manner of their passing. Tshibola isn't as bad in terms of going backwards His role should be to win the ball back, play it off to his midfield partner, with better passing, who then makes something happen. Unfortunately he knows who his midfield partner's are and has to try and do it all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 16, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2017 37 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: You're right but this underscores how 1D he is and maybe we need better all rounders in the squad. Maybe. But remember we're in the Championship. A central midfielder who can win headers and break up play and make interceptions and make tackles and is great at passing and can provide assists is going to be very difficult to come by. Imo we have Jedinak who is very good at the heading and breaking up play and tackling. If we had two other central midfielders in there who could do the other jobs so he doesn't have to then we'd be good enough to get out of this league. We don't need to ship out jedinak just because his passing is a bit crap. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Maybe. But remember we're in the Championship. A central midfielder who can win headers and break up play and make interceptions and make tackles and is great at passing and can provide assists is going to be very difficult to come by. Imo we have Jedinak who is very good at the heading and breaking up play and tackling. If we had two other central midfielders in there who could do the other jobs so he doesn't have to then we'd be good enough to get out of this league. We don't need to ship out jedinak just because his passing is a bit crap. Exactly. Pogba is pretty good at everything, not particularly great at anything, and he cost £100m. At this level you have to accept players lacking in one, or some, departments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 He wouldn't stand out as such as poor signing if we didn't defend as much as we do. If we were the dominant team in games, he would look much better because he'd be breaking up play further up the pitch and teammates would be close to give the ball to. Villa's problem is our midfield, we play with 1 striker usually who is stood 40 yards in front of anyone else as we sit so deep. He's not been great, but there is because there is too much onus on him. He shouldn't be played this way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, kurtsimonw said: It's Tshibola's man. He has a run on Jedi and there's not much time between him going past him and putting the ball in the net. A combination of hilarious awfulness from Amavi, Johnstone and Tshibola for that one. If Jedinak made the move towards the box and the ball came out to his man, who he had just left, then he'd be getting more stick (and rightfully so). I happen to agree with this although I must say they are mostly all ball watching, Jedi included, but to single him out for that goal is a bit much imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 16, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Villa's problem is our midfield, we play with 1 striker usually who is stood 40 yards in front of anyone else as we sit so deep. He's not been great, but there is because there is too much onus on him. He shouldn't be played this way. This. And honestly that's been our problem for probably a decade or more. Even under MON when we were flying we didn't have anything between the lines. We got away with it then because we had very good wingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, jackbauer24 said: No, I will not accept that his role "is just to win aerial battles and break up attacks", he is a MIDFIELDER. So whether he is defensive or attacking he has more to his role than that and both of them require the skill to PASS! If he can't pass he's just a body on the park. If people think that is genuinely his role then he can be replaced even more easily than I thought - shove a defender up there. Our defenders could win aerial battles and make interceptions in the middle of the park. The difference is they could all possibly pass successfully, or track a runner or keep up with play. So it's solved; I'd rather the useless Elphick, crocked Richards or even Hutton in that position if we can get a RB, they all would offer more than Jedinak does. How low have we sunk that we think it's acceptable to have a midfielder who can't pass?! I'd question that of a Sunday League team. Defenders may have to hoof it clear, attackers may be selfish but a midfielder PASSES - whether they be short, long, defensive, attacking, sideways... but should be hitting a minimum of 75% successfully. Not reguarly under 60% to as low as 39%....39%! But he still completes more passes to his team mates than any other midfield player. I think your anger should be aimed at them or the way we play, in that Jedinak is attempting way more passes than any other player. It's down to Tshibola's inexperience, Gardner's lack of ability and Westwoods cowardice as to why our worst passing midfield players is the key link for the team. We know Jedinak is poor at passing, but it's not his main role in the team. Kodjia is shit at winning headers but I wouldn't hold that against him. Jedinak does his job usually to an acceptable level and with better players his passing wouldn't be a major issue. I bet his pass percentage increases and his pass attempts decrease once our midfield is improved. Edited January 16, 2017 by DCJonah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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