Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[Richard]

4 minutes ago, BOF said:

The irony is that a parody twitter account of Xia would involve starting an account and not posting anything.

Cant like as Ive used 40 already on all the anti Xia posts today!!!

[BOF]

Come on.  Bring it in.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, Richard said:

The people making the perception

Take my post about Ayew in the transfer thread.  Someone says they have it on good authority that Ayw is going,  I post the quote from the owner and then get subjected to all sorts because of that.  Tell me how my post was perceived and why

It's perceived that way because of all the other criticism you've posted. If you hadn't that particular post wouldn't have been met with the same response.

[Richard]

2 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I still haven't come to a firm conclusion one way or another regarding Tony Xia

Me either. But I will continue to have doubts .

[Richard]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

It's perceived that way because of all the other criticism you've posted. If you hadn't that particular post wouldn't have been met with the same response.

Thanks.  So perceived that way because of the poster ,  not the post.

[HanoiVillan]

I'm going to cease posting in this thread for the time being. I'll be honest, I find the accusation that I'm 'moaning for the sake of moaning' to be quite offensive. Anyway, it's probably better that I leave the thread. 

[mikeyp102]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

You've made some good points here, but to address the bolded, the reason to question a 10-year target after just 6 weeks is because the target in question is self-evidently ridiculous and unachievable in time frames far far longer than 10 years. 

Yet Leicester achieved it in less time 

[rubberman]

18 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

You're right, I am criticising it. I'm not 'desperate' to do so, but I will criticise when I see something to criticise. Aims and targets should be SMART, ie. Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant and Time-bound. His target meets the last two criteria (relevant to Villa, yes) and time-bound (yes, ten years) but it isn't specific (we don't know in what way we will be one of the three biggest globally, as my conversation with @Godders shows it could be anything from 'trophies won' to 'social media followers'), and therefore it is not measurable, and if it involves being better on the football pitch than all of Juventus, Bayern Munich, PSG, Atletico Madrid, both Manchester teams, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and whomever else all at the same time it isn't achievable either. 

You ask 'what's the major issue with stating such a high ambition'. The answer is that studies show employees (read: players) find unrealistic targets demotivating. They breed an attitude of 'well, we'd never achieve what management want anyway, so why bother trying'. A more sensible, more motivating target might have been 'get promoted from the Championship at the first time of asking', which could have been failed but would still have been plausible. 

On the 'only 6 weeks' point, you don't need to wait until a target has been failed to say that it is a bad target. 

EDIT: To develop this point further, the other reason ridiculous targets are demotivating is that they suggest management have a poor grasp of the industry, which is an impression Xia would have done better to avoid giving in his first interview. 

 

Objectives should be SMART, aims and ambitions don't need to be .  Objectives are for the employees to use to work towards the business aims in a unified way.  

I work for one of the fastest growing businesses in the UK.  We have the aim, as a business, to make xxx the most popular sport in the world.  It won't ever be, as xxx is not football, cricket, baseball etc, but that is still the ambition we have as a business.  We aim for that with challenging plans for 3-5 year growth and annual budgets and objectives that are (just about) attainable.  The point is to have everyone constantly striving to be the best.  

To come back to Villa, if the height of Tony's ambition is mid-table premier league that's as far as we'll get.  Shoot for the moon etc.  We almost certainly won't be one of the top 3 clubs in the world in 10 years, but let's see where we can get to.  We've been the best (if not biggest) club in europe before, so let's keep that ambition.  The objectives on the way are promotion this year, champions league in 5 etc - still challenging but (possibly) achievable.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

1. Well if none of the people who could possibly help to achieve the target feel affected by the target, then it's a bad target because nobody will be working towards it. See my example of 'get promoted from the Championship at the first time of asking' for an example of a target that would be directly relevant to the players and management we have today. 

2. Obviously I can't disagree with you. People are individuals, and can be motivated in different ways. But most people don't react in that way, which is why being 'achievable' is one of the measures of a good target. 

3. I know it can be difficult to follow a thread in a conversation with many parties, especially in a high-traffic thread like this one this morning. So to be crystal clear, I responded initially to a post by @DCJonah that stated it was too soon to judge Xia on a target with a 10-year time horizon. I have only been addressing this issue this morning. I am criticising this target, and currently nothing else. I am not 'moaning for the sake of moaning'. If I didn't feel that the subject was worth addressing, I wouldn't have discussed at length in several posts. 

 

I've numbered your points so I can respond coherently. I can't seem to do that splitting the quote up schtuff. 

1. Did he not also set the target of promotion within 2 years? I would suggest the 10 year target was more for us/media/PR purposes than the current bunch. RDM included. Heck, Wyness likely won't be here in 10 years either. Perhaps Xia himself won't be. 10 years is a loooooong time in football. Think about where we ourselves were 10 years ago and all that has happened in between. We were a decent striker (some may say manager) away from Champions League, perhaps even more.

2. I don't agree that most people in the field in which we (as a club) operate, professional sports, do not react that way. If they don't then they're unlikely to have the required mental strength to make it to the very top. Aside from that I'm not sure players ever really pay much attention to that stuff and if they do, it will be drowned out by the day to day activity within the confines of the dressing room itself. Generally, at most clubs, the manager sets the tone which is occasionally advised to them by the board. I would be surprised if RDM is reminding them of this particular target on a day to day basis. 

3. Fair point. I should have separated out that final line and made it a more general point aimed at the message board as a whole.  

[dont_do_it_doug.]

By the way, I was in Rome last weekend. Sat outside eating my dinner al fresco I looked into a bar opposite and on the TV, the Italian version of Sky Sports, they were showing Leicester vs Oxford in a friendly.

Are Leicester City one of the top 3 clubs in the world? No, of course not. But that's a decent runner up prize. I'd take it. 

Edited July 29, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug.

[DCJonah]

15 minutes ago, Richard said:

Thanks.  So perceived that way because of the poster ,  not the post.

No because of previous posts. Though that was clear. 

[useless]

19 minutes ago, useless said:

Finally I think this might just be it, Xia has big plans for us and he hopes as a consequence of those plans we become one of the best known clubs in the world. He hasn't promised anything. Also his objectives are distinct, first promotion then maintaining Premier status, before aiming for top six. What we do now in trying to get promoted, is a thing apart from what we might do once back in the Prem.

Save your breath for cooling your soup mate. No one cares what you think.

Edited July 29, 2016 by useless

[BOF]

Right so, after our little discussionary tangent, and in the hope that we've found some middle ground and better understand where the counter-arguments are all originating from, can we get back to discussing Tony full time now thank you

[Richard]

OK so what I think of Xia.

I think he comes across as an incredibly enthusiastic individual and that certainly shows huge differences to the previous incumbent ,  well from the final years of the previous for sure.

I also applaud wholeheartedly his attempt to raise the profile of the club and thus seek additional income from India and China.  If we maximise that it has the potential to be huge for us and we should have done that years ago.  However,  that potential only exists should we be attractive and we only become attractive if we are successful.  What he now needs to to is invest some money to try and generate some success.  Speculate to accumulate.  What he has done is put in place the means and ways by which we can accumulate,  now needs to try and ease that if he can.  This is an area that I am largely skeptical of at this point.  It is my gut feeling,  and yes my perception may be wrong but I will hold it until proven otherwise,  that he/the current operation will try and achieve as much as possible with as little as possible to maximise the return.  In football I doubt that will generate continued success. Whether this is because he does not have the means at his disposal or not I'm not sure,  although I have suspicions.  But he needs to spend an awful lot on the playing side

I do not believe we will get promoted next season and I dont believe spending now will ensure we do.  However it will help to ensure we have a stable side who have developed together for the next few seasons and help that continued success.  Delaying now will not help and may in fact hinder as other clubs move further ahead or catch up.  Thats why the inaction so far is so frustrating for me and does not help my fears.

In addition I would just add his public utterances are a problem for me.  I am largely torn.  As a fan who is genuinely intrigued by the internal workings of the club i find them fascinating. However as a fan who is genuinely concerned for the well being of the club they scare the shit out of me as I do feel they have the potential to bite him and the club on the arse. If people think I am using them as a stick it is but nothing compared to media and other fans.  It is something we can do without as we seek to rebuild.  He should concentrate on what he is good at which I feel is trying to generate income for the club.  He should not act as club to fan liaison ,  that is not his job at all and I do not think he is good at it.

 

Edited July 29, 2016 by Richard

[Skills]

could do with a tweet about now...

[NIVillan]

52 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I've numbered your points so I can respond coherently. I can't seem to do that splitting the quote up schtuff. 

1. Did he not also set the target of promotion within 2 years? I would suggest the 10 year target was more for us/media/PR purposes than the current bunch. RDM included. Heck, Wyness likely won't be here in 10 years either. Perhaps Xia himself won't be. 10 years is a loooooong time in football. Think about where we ourselves were 10 years ago and all that has happened in between. We were a decent striker (some may say manager) away from Champions League, perhaps even more.w

Well 1972-1982 is ten years which was how long this great club took to be 3rd Division Champions to Champions of Europe.

Edited July 29, 2016 by NIVillan

[Grasshopper]

On 25. Juli 2016 at 23:51, TB said:

 

Give them grief when they're not doing the job on the pitch.

Lol

[DCJonah]

Will RDM now be given the same grief after his comments on Ayew? Surely he will. 

[briny_ear]

15 minutes ago, Skills said:

could do with a tweet about now...

Hopefully one that is capable of any number of interpretations so that its precise meaning can be picked over forensically for a few pages.

[BOF]

23 minutes ago, Richard said:

OK so what I think of Xia.

I think he comes across as an incredibly enthusiastic individual and that certainly shows huge differences to the previous incumbent ,  well from the final years of the previous for sure.

I also applaud wholeheartedly his attempt to raise the profile of the club and thus seek additional income from India and China.  If we maximise that it has the potential to be huge for us and we should have done that years ago.  However,  that potential only exists should we be attractive and we only become attractive if we are successful.  What he now needs to to is invest some money to try and generate some success.  Speculate to accumulate.  What he has done is put in place the means and ways by which we can accumulate,  now needs to try and ease that if he can.  This is an area that I am largely skeptical of at this point.  It is my gut feeling,  and yes my perception may be wrong but I will hold it until proven otherwise,  that he/the current operation will try and achieve as much as possible with as little as possible to maximise the return.  In football I doubt that will generate continued success. Whether this is because he does not have the means at his disposal or not I'm not sure,  although I have suspicions.  But he needs to spend an awful lot on the playing side

I do not believe we will get promoted next season and I dont believe spending now will ensure we do.  However it will help to ensure we have a stable side who have developed together for the next few seasons and help that continued success.  Delaying now will not help and may in fact hinder as other clubs move further ahead or catch up.  Thats why the inaction so far is so frustrating for me and does not help my fears.

In addition I would just add his public utterances are a problem for me.  I am largely torn.  As a fan who is genuinely intrigued by the internal workings of the club i find them fascinating. However as a fan who is genuinely concerned for the well being of the club they scare the shit out of me as I do feel they have the potential to bite him and the club on the arse. If people think I am using them as a stick it is but nothing compared to media and other fans.  It is something we can do without as we seek to rebuild.  He should concentrate on what he is good at which I feel is trying to generate income for the club.  He should not act as club to fan liaison ,  that is not his job at all and I do not think he is good at it.

 

And there you go.  We've an enormous amount of middle ground there between us.  I could have almost written that entire piece for myself.

I think we mainly differ around your gut feeling that he will try to put in as little as he can for the most return, but as you say these are gut feelings and as such will require the benefit of hindsight to be judged fully.  It might be that I'm more willing to give the benefit of any doubt at this point.  The fact we've spent the 2nd most so far in the Championship does at least hint that there is money there and it will be spent.  Now we definitely need to spend plenty more.  On that there's no argument.

I think the activity within the remainder of this summer transfer window will see one of us edging closer to the other's position on it all.  Whichever of us that may be.