Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[Richard]

14 hours ago, DCJonah said:

He said 3-4 would he told they weren't needed. Did he guarantee they would all be sold this week? What if the hold up is to do with the buying club? For someone so desperate to get rid of the last guy you're not giving this one a chance. Seems you just want to have a moan at whoever runs the club 

@TrentVillathe assertion I took from this post was Xia deserves a chance because he is not Randy Lerner or deserves some slack because of that,  hence my point made in my post above

[HanoiVillan]

21 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

1. Why are you questioning a 10 year target after just 6 weeks?

2. We've spent money so far and the window still has a mboth left. What's the issue?

3. What's the problem with that statement. It also looks to be 100% true. 

4. Since when have paper links meant anything? He's made a statement on it, what's the issue?

5. Both are true. It's a clause put it by people who owned and ran the club previously. Nothing the current set up can do. What's the issue?

6. Looks like he is leaving. What's the issue? We're trying to get the most money possible. Why is that bad?

7. That was weird but doesn't really mean anything. 

8. Nothing like giving someone a chance eh.

You've made some good points here, but to address the bolded, the reason to question a 10-year target after just 6 weeks is because the target in question is self-evidently ridiculous and unachievable in time frames far far longer than 10 years. 

[BOF]

22 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

The problem as I see it is that some aren't questioning, they appear to have already made their mind up. Perhaps because of their mindsets, perhaps because of the way he carries himself, perhaps because of what has gone before I don't know. But some people do give the impression that they've already made their mind up that Xia is a fraud etc and frankly, to my mind, to have come to that conclusion so quickly is utterly ridiculous. Questions are healthy, assumptions based on little more than impatience aren't and that is what I've been seeing a lot of lately

This is my problem too.   Some of those who are questioning Xia on a daily or hourly basis seem to be doing so in an almost confirmation-bias kind of way "Oh has he not done it yet then, oh I see, I'll keep waiting".  If those minds have not already been made up, then the posting style is suggesting otherwise.  Perhaps as you say, with what has gone on before down B6, being a Villa fan lends itself to the mindset that an owner is always guilty until proven innocent.  But knowing what the ensuing 'conversation' would be like and the lack of a middle ground, I tend to scan over those posts, which is a shame, because they're the very ones where I'd be interested in a reasoned to and fro.

[Godders]

I was really looking forward to this summer what with a new owner, new board, new backroom staff finally running the club a way a football club should be run.

Every time I come on here though I end up thinking "God i can't wait for the window to close" to stop this pessamistic outlook on things.

As far as I'm aware, our Tone has given us only 4 unofficial targets...

1. Top 3 globally in 10 years

2. Promotion this season or next

3. Ayew and Amavi staying

4. 3 or 4 players being told they could leave this week.

Firstly, 6 weeks into a 10 year plan is far too early to draw ANY conclusions at all about how achievable it is.

Secondly it's far too early to reach any conclusions about whether we'll be promoted or not this season. Mathematically, we could go winless until christmas, tear the league up in the new year and still go up ffs. Writing the season off before it's even kicked off is an unbelievable attitude to have.

Thirdly, last time I checked, Ayew and Amavi were still Villa players.

Finally, it looks like 3 or 4 players at least are on their way out imminently.

This has gone beyond questioning now imo. This is starting to look like a witch hunt where everything that is said, done, reported or not reported is twisted and used as a stick to beat the guy.

I'm not going to question him when he wants to make us one of the best clubs in the world. I'm not going to question him when he refuses to sell a player based on the first offer we get. Im not going to question him when he sends tweets that no-one outside of Villa really gives a f**k about, and I'm not going to judge him until he's had a fair crack at the whip.

[villa89]

3 minutes ago, BOF said:

This is my problem too.   Some of those who are questioning Xia on a daily or hourly basis seem to be doing so in an almost confirmation-bias kind of way

Indeed. They also seem to have lost all concept of time. The lad only bought the club a month or so ago and people want him splashing out £50m straight away. Give the man a chance to correct the shambles and then see where we are. The time to judge him is in 12-24 months not in 12-24 days...

Classic football fans mindset though, impatient with an extremely short memory.

Edited July 29, 2016 by villa89

[dounavilla]

I think the biggest thing we have learned so far is twitter is poison. 

[Richard]

1 minute ago, dounavilla said:

I think the biggest thing we have learned so far is twitter is poison. 

Do we blame a gun when it shoots someone or the person pulling the trigger ?

[BOF]

The other problem, or rather one of the obvious problems, with his tweets are that they were always going to be used to the letter to throw back at him.  He'll now be held to his 3 or 4 outgoings this week by anyone who is trying to prove he's not what he says he is.  As if he himself is in control of transfer deals.  I'd much rather interpret that tweet to realistically mean that the club are in the process of actively removing/selling 3 or 4 players i.e. they're as good as gone as soon as possible, rather than tie him to a timeline in a marketplace that is notoriously difficult to pin down.  Basically as I've said previously, those kind of posts smack of being very self-serving for people who come across as having already largely made up their minds.  But anyway, that's just me.  This also further serves to polarise the discussion because it then comes across as if people like me are 100% happy with the situation because we're sticking up for him on one point or the other.  We're not.  There is loads to do.  We need players in.  That's the grey area where the discussion can happen.  I would not be happy to go into the season with the exact squad we have now.  Generally if I think we're making progress then I'm content and will see what comes of it all.  It doesn't matter if a new owner buoyed by his own boundless enthusiasm comes in and wants to do X, Y and Z in double quick time.  We know; or we should know; it doesn't work like that.  As long as the football people are doing the work required and we're going in the right direction then I'm content.  But make no mistake that I think there's plenty still to do.

[TrentVilla]

29 minutes ago, Richard said:

@TrentVillathe assertion I took from this post was Xia deserves a chance because he is not Randy Lerner or deserves some slack because of that,  hence my point made in my post above

Well doesn't he? I don't see an issue with that. Surely he does derserve a chance in his own right? I'm not sure that is the same as saying he can't be questioned.

As I said there is a big difference between questioning and judging and I've seen a fair bit of the later which is what I think people take issue with.

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, BOF said:

Basically as I've said previously, those kind of posts smack of being very self-serving for people who come across as having already largely made up their minds. 

I agree with this. It's how it comes across. It's an affirmation of their already-made-up minds. There's no patience in football these days. I get that we still need a far amount doing to our frankly, toxic club, but it won't happen overnight (and lets be honest, 6 weeks is 'overnight' is footballing terms)

[Richard]

1 minute ago, BOF said:

Basically as I've said previously, those kind of posts smack of being very self-serving for people who come across as having already largely made up their minds.  But anyway, that's just me.  This also further serves to polarise the discussion because it then comes across as if people like me are 100% happy with the situation because we're sticking up for him on one point or the other. 

Discussion is also polarised by the assertion that people who are skeptical or who are questioning things have already made up their mind or are 100% unhappy with everything just because there are things to be worried about and those things are raised.  Yes they may be raised more than once but I would guess only because they appear to happen a lot (twitter posts) or that some people seem unable or unwilling to take the stance that questioning is legitimate. 

So for the sake of clarity again,  (this is another bug bear the fact that those who are uneasy at the minute have to continually justify that position in some way to avoid being accused of negative and or pessimistic and or totally against everything) am I totally against everything that is happening? No.  Have I amde my mind up to be anti the owner ? No.  That does not mean the points that have made and continue to make me uneasy as a supporter have been dealt with and to be honest until they are I will continue to be uneasy.

[Richard]

5 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Well doesn't he? I don't see an issue with that. Surely he does derserve a chance in his own right? I'm not sure that is the same as saying he can't be questioned.

As I said there is a big difference between questioning and judging and I've seen a fair bit of the later which is what I think people take issue with.

he does not deserve a chance based on just not being Randy Lerner no. Thats the point I am making.  The feeling from the post seemd to be "he's not lerner, dont criticise as much".  Sorry him not being lerner has nothing to fo with it.

Judging? Yes I am judging judging on actions and words being spoken.  Isnt that acceptable to judge on those two things.  Depends what the judgement is.  My current judgement is I am uneasy about things and still skeptical based on what I have seen and heard.

[DCJonah]

36 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

You've made some good points here, but to address the bolded, the reason to question a 10-year target after just 6 weeks is because the target in question is self-evidently ridiculous and unachievable in time frames far far longer than 10 years. 

I bet people said the same when the Leicester owner made statements a few years back. 

It probably is complelty unachievable but what's the problem with ambition and even if it is questioning a 10 year target 6 weeks in is just daft. 

[Paddywhack]

1 minute ago, Richard said:

he does not deserve a chance based on just not being Randy Lerner no. Thats the point I am making.  The feeling from the post seemd to be "he's not lerner, dont criticise as much".  Sorry him not being lerner has nothing to fo with it.

Judging? Yes I am judging judging on actions and words being spoken.  Isnt that acceptable to judge on those two things.  Depends what the judgement is.  My current judgement is I am uneasy about things and still skeptical based on what I have seen and heard.

No, no opinions are allowed here, sorry, you're too negative. 

[BOF]

Just now, Richard said:

Discussion is also polarised by the assertion that people who are skeptical or who are questioning things have already made up their mind or are 100% unhappy with everything just because there are things to be worried about and those things are raised.  Yes they may be raised more than once but I would guess only because they appear to happen a lot (twitter posts) or that some people seem unable or unwilling to take the stance that questioning is legitimate. 

So for the sake of clarity again,  (this is another bug bear the fact that those who are uneasy at the minute have to continually justify that position in some way to avoid being accused of negative and or pessimistic and or totally against everything) am I totally against everything that is happening? No.  Have I amde my mind up to be anti the owner ? No.  That does not mean the points that have made and continue to make me uneasy as a supporter have been dealt with and to be honest until they are I will continue to be uneasy.

Richard, mine was more an observation on the posting style of those sceptical posts.  Not the content.  There is a clear narrative in some of those posts when a question is being asked or an issue raised, that the answer is already assumed and that the eyes are already being rolled.  Now we can play silly buggers all we want, but in my mind if a lot of those 'questions' were phrased better, they wouldn't betray the poster's default position as much.

[meme]

It's been two months and we're already at each other's throats over Xia...

I'm impressed.

Edited July 29, 2016 by meme

[HanoiVillan]

19 minutes ago, Godders said:

I was really looking forward to this summer what with a new owner, new board, new backroom staff finally running the club a way a football club should be run.

Every time I come on here though I end up thinking "God i can't wait for the window to close" to stop this pessamistic outlook on things.

As far as I'm aware, our Tone has given us only 4 unofficial targets...

1. Top 3 globally in 10 years

. . . 

Firstly, 6 weeks into a 10 year plan is far too early to draw ANY conclusions at all about how achievable it is.

 

No, I'm just going to stop you there. It is not too early at all to draw conclusions about how realistic this target is. 

I think most people would agree that Barcelona and Real Madrid are the two biggest teams in the world, currently. So our owner has set as his target, being unambiguously bigger (in some way) than Juventus, Bayern Munich, Atletico Madrid and PSG, as well as all of Chelsea, both Manchester teams, Arsenal, Liverpool etc etc. Not just one of those teams, all of them. 

So what would we have to do to meet that? Well, winning the PL once wouldn't count. I didn't mention Leicester and I bet you didn't notice. To become clearly 'bigger' than all of those teams, we would need to win the Champions League multiple times. 

It's a nonsense. That I'm even explaining this to you is ridiculous. It's like explaining why Abu Hamza isn't going to be the next Prime Minister. 

[HanoiVillan]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I bet people said the same when the Leicester owner made statements a few years back. 

It probably is complelty unachievable but what's the problem with ambition and even if it is questioning a 10 year target 6 weeks in is just daft. 

Leicester's target was 'winning the league', not 'becoming one of the three biggest clubs in the world'. They have achieved one - in a miracle that few people expect to be repeated any time soon - but aren't even vaguely worth mentioning in the context of the other. We would have to do so much more than Leicester to become 'one of the three biggest clubs in the world'. 

Questioning this isn't daft, the only daft thing is even entertaining the possibility for a fraction of a second. 

[Richard]

15 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I agree with this. It's how it comes across. It's an affirmation of their already-made-up minds. There's no patience in football these days. I get that we still need a far amount doing to our frankly, toxic club, but it won't happen overnight (and lets be honest, 6 weeks is 'overnight' is footballing terms)

So are you saying we dont question, debate , discuss ,  opine on things that are happening now until two or three years down the line?

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Richard said:

So are you saying we dont question, debate , discuss ,  opine on things that are happening now until two or three years down the line?

In no way am I saying that.