Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

You're right, I am criticising it. I'm not 'desperate' to do so, but I will criticise when I see something to criticise. Aims and targets should be SMART, ie. Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant and Time-bound. His target meets the last two criteria (relevant to Villa, yes) and time-bound (yes, ten years) but it isn't specific (we don't know in what way we will be one of the three biggest globally, as my conversation with @Godders shows it could be anything from 'trophies won' to 'social media followers'), and therefore it is not measurable, and if it involves being better on the football pitch than all of Juventus, Bayern Munich, PSG, Atletico Madrid, both Manchester teams, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and whomever else all at the same time it isn't achievable either. 

You ask 'what's the major issue with stating such a high ambition'. The answer is that studies show employees (read: players) find unrealistic targets demotivating. They breed an attitude of 'well, we'd never achieve what management want anyway, so why bother trying'. A more sensible, more motivating target might have been 'get promoted from the Championship at the first time of asking', which could have been failed but would still have been plausible. 

On the 'only 6 weeks' point, you don't need to wait until a target has been failed to say that it is a bad target. 

 

How is it inherently 'bad'? You're right to say it's overly ambitious, perhaps even ridiculously so. Though explain to me how it is detrimental to the future of the football club to set such lofty ambitions? The example you give is poor, it's far enough away that the current squad won't give a monkeys, most of them will be retired by then and the manager will assume he'll be long gone. Future managers/players won't even know or care that the quote exists. If they do then they would have to be incredibly weak willed to allow it to affect them in a negative fashion. Personally, I find lofty ambition to be incredibly motivating. Aim for the stars and you might hit the moon and all that.

At worst it was free publicity. It made the headlines. At best it's a genuine sign of ambition, which should be motivating to the fanbase if he can show real progress over the next couple of years. Either way personally, I don't actually care. I just want my club to win a few football matches.  

It does feel like moaning for the sake of moaning to me. Like people want to generate some kind of ill feeling where it simply isn't warranted. 

[BOF]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

You ask 'what's the major issue with stating such a high ambition'. The answer is that studies show employees (read: players) find unrealistic targets demotivating. They breed an attitude of 'well, we'd never achieve what management want anyway, so why bother trying'. A more sensible, more motivating target might have been 'get promoted from the Championship at the first time of asking', which could have been failed but would still have been plausible.

All very true.  However my problem with it doesn't relate to the employees.  It relates to the man himself.  What happens if he gets a massive dose of reality and realises that his stated goals, or even getting into the same stratosphere as his stated goals becomes something that he clearly won't achieve without a scale of funding that he can not give.  Whether it be down to FFP or otherwise?  What then?  How much of a hurry would he be in to leave us?  Would he care about the state he left us in, or the person he sold us to?  Now maybe he wouldn't be in a hurry at all and this is all clearly hypothetical.  But as a fan these are the things that go through your mind.  We know the landscape of football and he knows what he's willing to put into the club.  But on the relatively safe assumption that we'll never be Bayern Munich, how willing will Tony be to continue flogging that horse for years?  That to me is the big question.  And it's only a question because of his stated ambition.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Just now, Richard said:

Depends.  Am I judging that he is a failure for Villa or that his time at Villa is a failure? Or am I judging the current pronouncements / actions? I am not doing the former but I can do the latter.  Not sure why that is not allowed

It seems like you are, yes. That is how your posts come across. 

[HanoiVillan]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

You say it's not measurable or achievable and yet, if it's based on trophies won or social media followers (to quote) then it's very measurable and as for being unachievable, Leicester City say hello.

a] it cannot be measurable if it is not specific, as - obviously - we can't know what we're supposed to be measuring, and 

b] do you regard Leicester City as one of the three biggest clubs in the world? If not, then Leicester's achievement, while wonderful, is only a fraction of the mountain we would have to climb. 

[Richard]

Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said:

It seems like you are, yes. That is how your posts come across. 

Then I think people need to read the posts for what I am saying not perceive what I am saying based on the fact it is me saying it,  which I think is a big issue.  Have I actually said he is a failure for the club or overall he will be a failure? Nope.

[PieFacE]

I almost get the feeling that Tony looked at one of the main criticisms of Lerner by fans, and that was a lack of communication and he's trying to be the opposite for that.

For me, there's a line in how much an owner of a football club needs to communicate with the fans, and I think Tony has crossed that line, but everyone is different and it's just my opinion.

I like how enthusiastic he is about the club, he obviously has high ambitions and I applaud that, but I think it's in his best interest to just get the squad in the shape they want to get it in and then do the talking. Maybe he's a little naive to the world of football and this is all part of a steep learning curve? Not sure. 

[BOF]

2 minutes ago, Richard said:

Depends.  Am I judging that he is a failure for Villa or that his time at Villa is a failure? Or am I judging the current pronouncements / actions? I am not doing the former but I can do the latter.  Not sure why that is not allowed

Again with the 'allowed'.  It is allowed, as are the subsequent responses to it whether you like them or not.

[BOF]

4 minutes ago, Richard said:

Then I think people need to read the posts for what I am saying not perceive what I am saying based on the fact it is me saying it

I'll point it out to you the next time you do it then.  As you're consistently not accepting the point.

[VillaBrum]

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-owner-tony-xia-11677891

The following is part of the above article:-

Aston Villa owner Tony Xia has moved to explain some of his cryptic tweets from this afternoon.

This Chinese businessman hit out at one of the claret and blues' rivals and encouraged supporters to boo them alongside him!

Xia has now explained how the team he was referring to were not Birmingham City or Newcastle United after fans bombarded his Twitter account with questions.

Gregg Evans then says:-

When asked why and when they should boo, he made his point clear...

 

I am not Twitter literate. Could someone explain how this article has explained his tweets and how "he has made his point clear"?

This is not a criticism of Tony Xia or his method of communication - I just cannot understand what has been said and how it has been explained.

Sorry to appear ignorant! - don't waste your time explaining, if it is not relevant to this thread. 

 

 

[mwj]

I often can't imagine why people say brummies are miserable words removed. Then I read VT...

[Richard]

44 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Is anyone saying its too early to discuss? I'm only seeing people say its too early to judge, which it is.

 

34 minutes ago, BOF said:

It is too early to judge.  It's not too early to genuinely "question, debate, discuss & opine" as you say, but to 'judge', absolutely yes it's too early.  And it's when the judgements come along on here that they quite rightly receive the backlash.  Whether those judgements are positive or negative is immaterial.  The finality of a(ny) judgement at this stage, by definition means that the poster has made their mind up, which is precisely the point I was getting at from the beginning.

Perhaps "allowed" was too final.  But posts like the above saying it is too early to judge I took as saying it is not acceptable / allowed.  My mistake

[DCJonah]

5 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

I almost get the feeling that Tony looked at one of the main criticisms of Lerner by fans, and that was a lack of communication and he's trying to be the opposite for that.

For me, there's a line in how much an owner of a football club needs to communicate with the fans, and I think Tony has crossed that line, but everyone is different and it's just my opinion.

I like how enthusiastic he is about the club, he obviously has high ambitions and I applaud that, but I think it's in his best interest to just get the squad in the shape they want to get it in and then do the talking. Maybe he's a little naive to the world of football and this is all part of a steep learning curve? Not sure. 

I think he probably is naive to having his social media accounts scrutinised by so many. I think his tweets about booing rivals was bizarre but overall I think the communication with fans is a refreshing change and I hope it continues 

[useless]

Xia actually said that his aim is to make us one of the top six teams in the next five years and that he hopes we can become one of the best well known three teams in the world in the next ten years.

[Richard]

4 minutes ago, BOF said:

I'll point it out to you the next time you do it then.  As you're consistently not accepting the point.

But I am reading and understanding the point and trying to debate why I do not agree with it.  I am not just perceiving what the post is just because of who the poster is. But this is way off topic now. So Xia then eh? What a fraud ! ;-)

[DCJonah]

Just now, useless said:

Xia actually said that his aim is to make us one of the top six teams in the next five years and that he hopes we can become one of the best well known three teams in the world in the next ten years.

I don't think those moaning really care about the exact words. They will find a reason to moan. It's like the statement regarding funds to spend. It's quite clear it was a nervous guy speaking to the world's media and his point was that the manager will be backed. Yet people jump on the figures mentioned to have a moan, even though there's a month left in the window. He said 3/4 will be told they aren't needed yet people have taken that as some sort of promise to sell these players by the end of the week. 

 

[HanoiVillan]

5 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

How is it inherently 'bad'? You're right to say it's overly ambitious, perhaps even ridiculously so. Though explain to me how it is detrimental to the future of the football club to set such lofty ambitions? The example you give is poor, it's far enough away that the current squad won't give a monkeys, most of them will be retired by then and the manager will assume he'll be long gone.

Well if none of the people who could possibly help to achieve the target feel affected by the target, then it's a bad target because nobody will be working towards it. See my example of 'get promoted from the Championship at the first time of asking' for an example of a target that would be directly relevant to the players and management we have today. 

5 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Personally, I find lofty ambition to be incredibly motivating. Aim for the stars and you might hit the moon and all that.

Obviously I can't disagree with you. People are individuals, and can be motivated in different ways. But most people don't react in that way, which is why being 'achievable' is one of the measures of a good target. 

10 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

It does feel like moaning for the sake of moaning to me. Like people want to generate some kind of ill feeling where it simply isn't warranted. 

I know it can be difficult to follow a thread in a conversation with many parties, especially in a high-traffic thread like this one this morning. So to be crystal clear, I responded initially to a post by @DCJonah that stated it was too soon to judge Xia on a target with a 10-year time horizon. I have only been addressing this issue this morning. I am criticising this target, and currently nothing else. I am not 'moaning for the sake of moaning'. If I didn't feel that the subject was worth addressing, I wouldn't have discussed at length in several posts. 

13 minutes ago, BOF said:

All very true.  However my problem with it doesn't relate to the employees.  It relates to the man himself.  What happens if he gets a massive dose of reality and realises that his stated goals, or even getting into the same stratosphere as his stated goals becomes something that he clearly won't achieve without a scale of funding that he can not give.  Whether it be down to FFP or otherwise?  What then?  How much of a hurry would he be in to leave us?  Would he care about the state he left us in, or the person he sold us to?  Now maybe he wouldn't be in a hurry at all and this is all clearly hypothetical.  But as a fan these are the things that go through your mind.  We know the landscape of football and he knows what he's willing to put into the club.  But on the relatively safe assumption that we'll never be Bayern Munich, how willing will Tony be to continue flogging that horse for years?  That to me is the big question.  And it's only a question because of his stated ambition.

These are very good points. 

[a m ole]

12 minutes ago, Richard said:

Then I think people need to read the posts for what I am saying not perceive what I am saying based on the fact it is me saying it,  which I think is a big issue.  Have I actually said he is a failure for the club or overall he will be a failure? Nope.

and whose issue is that?

Edited July 29, 2016 by a m ole

[BOF]

1 minute ago, Richard said:

So Xia then eh? What a fraud ! ;-)

The irony is that a parody twitter account of Xia would involve starting an account and not posting anything.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

14 minutes ago, Richard said:

Then I think people need to read the posts for what I am saying not perceive what I am saying based on the fact it is me saying it,  which I think is a big issue.  Have I actually said he is a failure for the club or overall he will be a failure? Nope.

Sorry Richard I disagree. It seems to the outsider that you have already made your mind up and are attacking every thread with this train of thought as your baseline. 

I'm not attacking you, nor am I saying it is not "allowed". Only that is how you are presenting yourself with all the "but, but Tony said..." crap, to give one fine example. You're appearing to mock him and the only viable reason I can come up with for that is that you already have some kind of vendetta against him. 

I still haven't come to a firm conclusion one way or another regarding Tony Xia but he seems likable, has lofty ambitions for my football club and as such I am willing to give him a little breathing room before questioning every single move or comment he makes, every single day. Over and over

Anyway, I think the point has been driven home! I'm sorry that you feel attacked, it's just VT man  

[Richard]

2 minutes ago, a m ole said:

and whose issue is that?

The people making the perception

Take my post about Ayew in the transfer thread.  Someone says they have it on good authority that Ayew is going,  I post the quote from the owner and then get subjected to all sorts because of that.  Tell me how my post was perceived and why.