The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[omariqy]

I was slightly in favour of leaving the EU but then I saw the front page of the Sun.

[chrisp65]

At every gig I went to over the weekend the band asked the audience leave or remain.

Total audience at all three events would have been circa 700 / 800 and it was pretty much 100% remain.

But there would have been both peer pressure, and, as Mooney mentioned, it's a fairly self selecting sample when you're at a folk gig raising awareness of the plight of the Guatemalan organic water vole or whatever.

I've driven through Hampshire today, it is voting to leave. Or at least, every retired accountant with a pretty house in a pretty village is voting leave.

Now, who's more likely to actually give a folk and vote on the day, retired folks, or trendy young folk folks.....

 

 

[MakemineVanilla]

6 minutes ago, omariqy said:

I was slightly in favour of leaving the EU but then I saw the front page of the Sun.

The trouble with propaganda is that as many react negatively to it as react positively.

[BOF]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

At every gig I went to over the weekend the band asked the audience leave or remain.

Total audience at all three events would have been circa 700 / 800 and it was pretty much 100% remain.

But there would have been both peer pressure, and, as Mooney mentioned, it's a fairly self selecting sample when you're at a folk gig raising awareness of the plight of the Guatemalan organic water vole or whatever.

I've driven through Hampshire today, it is voting to leave. Or at least, every retired accountant with a pretty house in a pretty village is voting leave.

Now, who's more likely to actually give a folk and vote on the day, retired folks, or trendy young folk folks.....

Pensioners always vote.  But yes I'd say 'remain' has the Guatemalan organic water vole vote wrapped up.

[zak]

4 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

At Glastonbury next week so posting my vote back now.

Samsies, but haven't got my postal vote yet

[snowychap]

Newsnight running a story that senior Labour remain people (e.g. Mr and Mrs Balls) are after Cameron addressing immigration/freedom of movement and talking about trying to negotiate restrictions on freedom of movement after a vote to remain because they think that's the only way to secure some labour voters for the remain vote.

What an utter shame.

 

Edited June 14, 2016 by snowychap

[penguin]

Osborne turning the fear/blackmail up a notch. Can't see it don't much but pushing people the other way.

[tonyh29]

European court just ruled in favour of Britain with holding payments to migrants ( or something like that )

 

why it's almost as if there is a vote coming up and they wanted to be seen as making concessions to the UK

 

 

[V01]

[Chindie]

None of those correlations surprise me a single bit.

I think it adds some weight to the idea that this is mostly an immigration debate, when it should be more complicated than that, and I also reckon that that immigration debate generally isn't really an EU immigration debate, it's a wider immigration debate full stop. Despite that having little too no relevance to this referendum.

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, snowychap said:

Newsnight running a story that senior Labour remain people (e.g. Mr and Mrs Balls) are after Cameron addressing immigration/freedom of movement and talking about trying to negotiate restrictions on freedom of movement after a vote to remain because they think that's the only way to secure some labour voters for the remain vote.

What an utter shame.

 

It will exactly as effective as you would imagine, ie not at all. 

If you're a xenophobe, who do you vote for, the people who are actually xenophobic or the people who are transparently just cynically playing at it? 

Labour tried this 'tough talk on immigration' at the last election, I doubt it won them a single vote. 

[tonyh29]

7 hours ago, V01 said:

They appear to have left off morally superior at the top of the blue column 

 

 

[tonyh29]

7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

It will exactly as effective as you would imagine, ie not at all. 

If you're a xenophobe, who do you vote for, the people who are actually xenophobic or the people who are transparently just cynically playing at it? 

Labour tried this 'tough talk on immigration' at the last election, I doubt it won them a single vote. 

I think your are falling into the trap of not acknowledging  that Xenophobic people were already voting for labour in the first place.... It probably didn't win them a single vote but maybe it slowed down the rate of desertion mich the same way it did for the Tory party .

 

 

[mjmooney]

19 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

They appear to have left off morally superior at the top of the blue column 

 

 

That was covered by 'Guardian Readers'.

Come to think of it, as an over-60, Yorkshire-dwelling, Labour voting Guardian reader, how am I supposed to vote?

[chrisp65]

Lord Digby Jones ‏@Digbylj  18h18 hours ago

The unelected unaccountable EU commission (paid for by ordinary taxpayers) go to fancy restaurants & use private planes on us! ....,,,,,,

 

Anybody else suspect he tweeted that from the Peers' Dining Room at the House of Lords?

[MakemineVanilla]

10 hours ago, snowychap said:

Newsnight running a story that senior Labour remain people (e.g. Mr and Mrs Balls) are after Cameron addressing immigration/freedom of movement and talking about trying to negotiate restrictions on freedom of movement after a vote to remain because they think that's the only way to secure some labour voters for the remain vote.

What an utter shame.

 

It sounds like the opening strategy to the build up to the next referendum in the case of a Brexit victory.

In that case Cameron would probably go and the pressures would mount for a General Election.

Labour might fancy that they could form a coalition and promise another referendum if conditions on freedom of movement were met.

While they amuse us with trivial talk about trade, I suspect the real concerns of the remain camp and their American masters are geopolitical.

So I would be amazed if they took no for an anwser and there wasn't another referendum.

 

[Demitri_C]

Why the hell are people willing to potentially gamble with our lives FFS

Quote

 

'Brexit Budget' would see £30bn in cuts and tax hikes, warns George Osborne

By PA  Jun 15, 2016

Tax hikes and spending cuts totalling £30 billion will need to be forced through in an emergency "Brexit Budget" if Britain votes to quit the EU, Chancellor George Osborne is warning.

Mr Osborne and Labour former chancellor Alistair Darling are insisting schools, hospitals and the armed forces would all see funding slashed after a win for the Leave side on June 23.

The basic rate of income tax would increase by 10%, climbing to 22p in the pound, the top rate would rise 3p to 43p, and inheritance tax would go up 5p to 45p in the pound, to plug a predicted £30 billion "black hole" in national finances triggered by Brexit, Mr Osborne is saying.

The NHS would see cuts of £2.5 billion, with the defence budget reduced by £1.2 billion, and education spending down by £1.15 billion, the Chancellor is warning as he gives "illustrative examples" of what would be in an emergency Budget.

As the Remain side tries to force the debate back on to the economy, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has strongly defended the free movement of workers within the EU, despite the party's deputy leader Tom Watson indicating migration rules could be changed.

The Chancellor is saying the emergency Budget figures are based on mid-range forecasts by the Institute for Fiscal Studies of the likely economic impact of Brexit, but pro-Leave Tories insist they would vote against such measures.

Spending on pensions could be cut by £2 billion, with the Home Office, transport, and local government taking a £5.8 billion hit, and alcohol and petrol duties surging by 5%, Mr Osborne is claiming.

"Quitting the EU would hit investment, hurt families and harm the British economy. As Chancellor, I would have a responsibility to try to restore stability to the public finances and that would mean an emergency Budget where we would have to increase taxes and cut spending.

"Far from freeing up money to spend on public services as the Leave campaign would like you to believe, quitting the EU would mean less money. Billions less. It's a lose-lose situation for British families and we shouldn't risk it."

Mr Darling, who ran the Treasury during the economic crash, is saying: "I am even more worried now than I was in 2008. We know we'll have not just a short period of uncertainty - but years and years of it. Far from having more to spend on public services - the giant con trick at the heart of the Leave campaign - we'd have tens of billions of pounds less."

Tory MP Steve Baker said he and other Conservatives would not support such a Budget.

"I am shocked that the Chancellor is threatening to break so many key manifesto pledges on which all Conservative MPs were elected. I could not support these plans to cut the NHS and increase taxes on hardworking families," he said.

Pro-Leave Labour MP John Mann said: "Alistair Darling is backing George Osborne's new austerity budget."

The economic warning came as Mr Corbyn said he would "absolutely" defend the EU's rules on free movement of workers.

"It's intrinsic to the European Union that there has to be free movement of people," he told Buzzfeed.com.

Shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn refused to fully endorse the position of either Mr Corbyn or Mr Watson, telling BBC Newsnight: "It will be perfectly within our rights to say, for new member states ... we will determine how free movement applies to those countries."

The Leave side insisted emergency legislation would be brought in after a Brexit vote to ban European judges giving rulings on UK laws.

Commons Leader Chris Grayling set out a detailed post-withdrawal action plan as he indicated the UK may remain a member of the EU until the end of 2019 as it would not need to trigger formal exit procedures immediately.

He warned Britain may have to take early action to restrict free movement of labour to "prevent a massive influx of people" before the UK officially leaves.

Remain's once double-digit lead over Leave has been cut to one point, according to a ComRes survey for The Sun which puts In on 46% and Out on 45%.

 

We will be ruined if we leave #remain

[tonyh29]

5 live just now and the phone

Asian bloke , articulate and appearing to be well versed in his arguments ( being radio and in the car I couldn't do the VT thing and go off and check so I could catch him out) ..was in favour of remain ...

then over to the Leave person ... woman who used the phrase we are an Island and sinking , time to pull up the drawbridge etc , think there was even the I'm not racist line in there somewhere as well

 

to be honest both their arguments had more holes than Lescott / Richards defence  , but listening to the woman did make me think maybe remain have got a point 

 

 

[Paddywhack]

12 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

5 live just now and the phone

Asian bloke , articulate and appearing to be well versed in his arguments ( being radio and in the car I couldn't do the VT thing and go off and check so I could catch him out) ..was in favour of remain ...

then over to the Leave person ... woman who used the phrase we are an Island and sinking , time to pull up the drawbridge etc , think there was even the I'm not racist line in there somewhere as well

 

to be honest both their arguments had more holes than Lescott / Richards defence  , but listening to the woman did make me think maybe remain have got a point 

 

 

I guess that can just depend on who they picked to represent either side though.

I've heard of some people wanting to stay in the EU because they still want England to play in the euros. 

[Davkaus]

Farage has admitted he hasn't got a **** clue what'd happen if we vote to Leave, and he's not worrying about that yet, he just wants to win...I'm sure it'll be an adventure, nothing to worry about, lads.