tonyh29 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Chindie said: No it's nothing like that at all. And if anything I'm arguing against a position of being misleading. Someone representing a Leave group, used a massacre hours afterwards to push the Leave agenda. Whether it was signed off by official Leave groups or not, it was used for a gain for that cause. It's nothing like saying all Muslims are terrorists if one is. The point would only stand if all Muslims actually had signed up to 'Vote Terror'. I was criticising the continued, incorrect, imposition that Remain have a monopoly on Project Fear. I raised an example of a tweet, used to market Leave as a position, by an affiliate of that position, as a glib example of how wrong this Project Remain Fear thing is. There's dozens of others. And arguably the entire campaign of Leave AND Remain are founded on Fear. though I concede that whenever anyone calls project Fear , Project Fear you do come back with the repost of that characterization applying to both sides , tbf that's nothing like what you said , you posted a lazy ambiguous argument to present your cause ..this isn't twitter , you aren't restricted to 140 words Edited June 15, 2016 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: ..this isn't twitter , you aren't restricted to 140 words You're not on twitter either! Oooh, 1-0 paddywhack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Just now, Paddywhack said: You're not on twitter either! Oooh, 1-0 paddywhack! meh , goals are only awarded for Grammar corrections or references to hard working nurses in our beloved NHS so , goal overturned by the video reply 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 What the Norwegians were told: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 15, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: £ for £ , the dire threats have been Project Fear rather than Project hope , no ? I wouldn't say so, no. I suppose anyone's perception to an extent depends on who/what they listen to/watch/read. But IMO "dire threats" have come about fairly equally (I haven't been keeping an exact tally). What I have noticed is In people doing scaremongering on the economy, particularly. Out has been doing it on Immigration - Turkey's about to join and 75 million of 'em will come over 'ere... or their TV ad where they showed an In NHS hospital (terrible) and an Out one (brilliant). I've seen both sides say we'll be less safe if the other lot get their way. Out are much more scare-mongery on immigration. Whichever, it's been lamentable from both sides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 22 minutes ago, blandy said: (I haven't been keeping an exact tally). luckily , somebody has Remain uses Project Fear more in tweets than Leave, analysis shows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 15, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2016 Quote They both, however, use fear and anger terms twice as often per tweet than a random sample of tweets from non-campaign accounts. From your link to the Telegraph. So my pretty much the same feeling seems to be broadly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said: What the Norwegians were told: It would have been nice of one of them to thank the oil fairy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 6 hours ago, tonyh29 said: it's almost like Football didn't' exist before Sky and the U.K didn't exist before the European Union We don't leave on Friday 24th , it has to go through parliament ( I wonder if it's really close if they will try and argue it wasn't enough of a mandate and we should renegotiate ? ) and then we have 2 years of discussions , bluff and counter bluff 2 years of uncertainty. Investment decisions will be easy. This is gonna be such a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 8 minutes ago, villakram said: 2 years of uncertainty. Investment decisions will be easy. This is gonna be such a mess. I don't really see it that way deals that are in place today , will still be in place tomorrow ..ergo nothing changes , we don't wake up on the 24th and find BMW have closed all their showrooms and gone home in a huff meanwhile we have 2 years to come up with a cunning plan for going forward , one of which I've a sneaky feeling will be the EU saying how about you stay but don't have to have freedom of movement .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: I don't really see it that way deals that are in place today , will still be in place tomorrow ..ergo nothing changes , we don't wake up on the 24th and find BMW have closed all their showrooms and gone home in a huff meanwhile we have 2 years to come up with a cunning plan for going forward , one of which I've a sneaky feeling will be the EU saying how about you stay but don't have to have freedom of movement .... Ahh, but if you own a business with non-negligible EU trade (sales or supply), it's going to be difficult to make anything more than maintenance/status-quo investments until the final new rules and regulations are sorted out. Therefore, growth in the near term will likely be non-existent. However, that can be judged as a price worth paying in order to get ?!?! and ..... and keep the furryners out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 15, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2016 8 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: meanwhile we have 2 years to come up with a cunning plan for going forward , one of which I've a sneaky feeling will be the EU saying how about you stay but don't have to have freedom of movement .... That's possible, I suppose. Equally possible is they say "well, as we already said when you were In and part of our community, before you stormed off, "No, you can't get out of free movement and keep the rest. So now you've left the club we're even less inclined to give it to you. If we give it to you, we'll have to give it to everyone else, which utterly defeats the whole point of the thing, so no. Nob off with your demands to have all the gains but not be part of the club". Bit of a risk? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 34 minutes ago, villakram said: It would have been nice of one of them to thank the oil fairy... Those campaigning to join made their predictions with full knowledge of the oil fairy and still predicted job-losses and international isolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 8 minutes ago, blandy said: That's possible, I suppose. Equally possible is they say "well, as we already said when you were In and part of our community, before you stormed off, "No, you can't get out of free movement and keep the rest. So now you've left the club we're even less inclined to give it to you. If we give it to you, we'll have to give it to everyone else, which utterly defeats the whole point of the thing, so no. Nob off with your demands to have all the gains but not be part of the club". Bit of a risk? depends if you have a Royal flush in your hands or a Pair of 2's I guess Bit of a risk .. for sure , it was also a risk to come out of the ERM , not adopt the Euro ... the question is will we pull a Homer if we leave pull a Homer (humorous) To succeed despite idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 45 minutes ago, blandy said: From your link to the Telegraph. So my pretty much the same feeling seems to be broadly right. depends on your definition of "more " I suppose (as per the article Remain uses Project Fear more in tweets than Leave) if we rob a bank and we split it 51% to 49% ( in my favour of course as the brains of the outfit ) long as you are happy with "pretty much the same" then I'm happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 48 minutes ago, villakram said: It would have been nice of one of them to thank the oil fairy... he was otherwise engaged in Scotland by Salmond and Sturgeon paying for their Independence ...before he got drunk and lost his wallet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 The whole 'project fear' thing is stupid. There's nothing wrong with pointing out likely negative externalities. If I tell you not to jump into a quarry in the dark I'm not engaging in 'project fear'. The issue is with misinformation, which has been endless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 9 hours ago, tonyh29 said: I think your are falling into the trap of not acknowledging that Xenophobic people were already voting for labour in the first place.... It probably didn't win them a single vote but maybe it slowed down the rate of desertion mich the same way it did for the Tory party . You might also be underestimating how many people didn't vote Labour because of the perceived lack of difference between them and the Conservatives. We'll never know exactly. What we do know is it sure didn't help Labour win the election. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said: Those campaigning to join made their predictions with full knowledge of the oil fairy and still predicted job-losses and international isolation. but nobody predicted that oil would go from ~$20 to >$100 and stay there for a number of years. Hence, their oil went from being a rainy day fund to the worlds largest hedge fund. Also, the simply amazing transformation in societies ability to be interconnected was foreseen be very very few. In light of this, I'd suggest that jumping up and down and saying "nananana, we were right", is a little on the hubristic side of things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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