The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[NurembergVillan]

52 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

No there isn't. But the economic fate of a country normally resides with their own government rather than Bankers sitting in Brussels. 

I'd never claim to be an expert on this topic, but I wasn't aware that there were any bankers in Brussels - or at least not any with decision making powers.  If you or any of the others can enlighten me, I'm always up for learning more on this topic.

If we're suggesting that "Bankers sitting in Brussels" can't be trusted, the only one I'm certain of is Nigel Farage and he's the one leading the march out of the EU.  Which makes you wonder if he's got an ulterior motive really, doesn't it?  Certainly it's been widely reported that a group of his close associates (and likely he himself) made a lot of money on referendum night because of the huge swing in the value of the Pound.

[ml1dch]

5 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

I'd never claim to be an expert on this topic, but I wasn't aware that there were any bankers in Brussels - or at least not any with decision making powers.  If you or any of the others can enlighten me, I'm always up for learning more on this topic.

There probably are lots of bankers in Brussels, but not in the context he is referring to.

There is also the European Central Bank, the Eurozone's version of the Bank of England. But that's in Frankfurt.

[Chindie]

14 minutes ago, bickster said:

The mistake with Greece was allowing them to join in the first place

True. Given Greece's history economically, it probably wasn't the smartest move to have them in the Euro.

[StefanAVFC]

Poland has done **** fantastically out of EU membership.

Lodz is unrecognisable now, in just the 3 years I've been here.

Even their Eurosceptic nationalist government can't be too harsh on the EU, even though you can tell they want to.

[Chindie]

15 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Poland has done **** fantastically out of EU membership.

Lodz is unrecognisable now, in just the 3 years I've been here.

Even their Eurosceptic nationalist government can't be too harsh on the EU, even though you can tell they want to.

It's all the Great British pounds they've been sending home after stealing all the plumbers jobs innit?

[Straggler]

12 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

I see Jacob Rees Mogg has called out John Major for being part of the elite.

Jacob Rees-Mogg (raised in a country house, Eton, Oxford, then an investment banker, net worth >£100m) called out John Major (raised on a council estate, left school at 16 with three O Levels) the European elite and a hypocrite.  I keep reading this back trying to make sense of it, but I'm really struggling.

[StefanAVFC]

14 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Jacob Rees-Mogg (raised in a country house, Eton, Oxford, then an investment banker, net worth >£100m) called out John Major (raised on a council estate, left school at 16 with three O Levels) the European elite and a hypocrite.  I keep reading this back trying to make sense of it, but I'm really struggling.

It doesn't have to make sense, as long as it riles up his base.

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

No there isn't. But the economic fate of a country normally resides with their own government rather than Bankers sitting in Brussels. 

I would also point out that, when a country enters sovereign debt default, which is what would have happened to Greece were it not a member of the Eurozone, a lot of very important decisions about that country's access to international bond markets are not decided by that country's government.

That being said, there is an argument to be made that Greece would have 'benefitted' from an early default in that you would normally expect that the depths of the crisis would have been worse but that the country would have bounced back much faster.

Edited March 1, 2018 by HanoiVillan

[Straggler]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

It doesn't have to make sense, as long as it riles up his base.

Even that doesn't make sense to me though.  I mean who are his base and how can they not see that he is part of the elite?  They would have to be mind boggling stupid not to see that.  He could not be more obviously from the elite if he had it tattooed across his butlers forehead.  Having a problems with elites and liking Rees-Mogg is like being a vegan cannibal.

[Chindie]

They're more bothered by the European part.

Major is advocating for the evil heathen shadowy halls of nazi Brussels. Mogg is a good upstanding English gent.

Of course this is patent nonsense but it doesn't matter. 

[HanoiVillan]

10 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Even that doesn't make sense to me though.  I mean who are his base and how can they not see that he is part of the elite?  They would have to be mind boggling stupid not to see that.  He could not be more obviously from the elite if he had it tattooed across his butlers forehead.  Having a problems with elites and liking Rees-Mogg is like being a vegan cannibal.

It's bullshit, as described by Harry Frankfurt in 'On Bullshit' - the purpose is not to mislead or deceive the listener, but simply to create a mental association in the minds of those scarcely paying attention between 'Major' and 'elite'.

[LondonLax]

9 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Even that doesn't make sense to me though.  I mean who are his base and how can they not see that he is part of the elite?  They would have to be mind boggling stupid not to see that.  He could not be more obviously from the elite if he had it tattooed across his butlers forehead.  Having a problems with elites and liking Rees-Mogg is like being a vegan cannibal.

He is talking about 'intellectual elites', not about money. He is feeding meat to his base who don't like 'intellectuals sitting in their ivory towers telling them they know whats best for them' etc. 

[tonyh29]

The timing of Corbyns latest change of Brexit Policy and Barniers statements yesterday are somewhat  convenient .. the conspiracy theorists amongst us would almost wonder if they were synchronised , I'm sure it's just a coincidence though

[Demitri_C]

Look who has come out the woodwork Bliar

Quote

 

Tony Blair blasts 'sickening' Brexiteers 'prepared to sacrifice peace in Northern Ireland'

The former prime minister implores Brussels to set up a "parallel path" to Brexit, predicting Mrs May's vision will never happen.

10:05, UK,Thursday 01 March 2018

Image:Tony Blair called some Brexiteers 'sickening'

By Aubrey Allegretti, Political Reporter

Tony Blair has launched a scathing attack on politicians "prepared to sacrifice peace in Northern Ireland on the altar of Brexit".

The former Labour prime minister said MPs dismissing concerns about the future of the boundary between Northern Ireland and the Republic were "sickening".

He also said Theresa May's demands for Brexit were "literally not going to happen" in a dramatic intervention ahead of the PM's next showpiece Brexit speech on Friday.

Image:The ex-PM said Mrs May's Brexit vision was 'not going to happen'

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today show, Mr Blair said: "What she thinks is that it's possible to get the EU to give us access to Europe's markets without the same obligations that the rest of Europe has in the single market.

"That is not possible. It's not a question of a tough negotiation or a weak negotiation, it literally is not going to happen.

He added: "I find it not just disappointing but sickening that people should really be prepared to sacrifice peace in Northern Ireland on the altar of Brexit."

And Mr Blair cautioned that despite Jeremy Corbyn's call for Britain to stay in a customs union with the EU after Brexit, Labour would "very soon find that we've got to move further in order to escape the dilemma ourselves".

Image:The UK and EU have clashed over how to avoid a hard border in N Ireland

He will give his own speech on Thursday, following on the heels of John Major, the Conservative prime minister he ousted in 1997.

Mr Blair will aim his address at Brussels, telling EU leaders that they "share the responsibility to lead us out of the Brexit cul-de-sac".

He is expected to call for them to set up a "parallel path" to Brexit, which gives Britons the option to stay in a "reformed" EU.

There may be just "weeks" left to do so, Mr Blair will declare, buoying Remainers with the optimism that "in these times in politics anything can happen".

Image:Mrs May will give her own Brexit speech on Friday

It will come hours after Theresa May hosts EU Council President Donald Tusk in Downing Street for talks on the draft Withdrawal Agreement.

On Wednesday, she said the terms laid down by Brussels could not be accepted by "any UK prime minister".

 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said:

I'd never claim to be an expert on this topic, but I wasn't aware that there were any bankers in Brussels - or at least not any with decision making powers.  If you or any of the others can enlighten me, I'm always up for learning more on this topic.

If we're suggesting that "Bankers sitting in Brussels" can't be trusted, the only one I'm certain of is Nigel Farage and he's the one leading the march out of the EU.  Which makes you wonder if he's got an ulterior motive really, doesn't it?  Certainly it's been widely reported that a group of his close associates (and likely he himself) made a lot of money on referendum night because of the huge swing in the value of the Pound.

Sorry meant the ECB but as somebody mentioned they are based in Frankfurt. It's not that they can't be trusted. It's more their priority would be to protect the EU as a whole more than any individual country. Now I know this is obvious but it doesn't help the country that is in a crisis. I.e. Greece. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

You could rephrase this as

"Well being in the EU wasn't perfect, so we may as well just completely **** ourselves over for decades instead"

You don't know if we will be f**ked for years to come. 

2 hours ago, ml1dch said:

Out of curiosity, what would you have done differently if you were in the position of the Commission and the ECB?

I wouldn't have done anything differently. Protecting the EU is more important than an individual country. Screw Greece. 

[snowychap]

4 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

see their views on Catalonia, Spanish 'democracy' and Catalan political prisoners for starters, especially that pig Verhofstadt

you may also consider the economic plight of the Greeks

 

That's not really an answer to how they've been shafting the countries that are part of it. It's how they've acted badly towards some of the countries that are part of it on some occasions.

The post to which I was responding implied that it was shafting all of its members and thus said that we we were shafted regardless.

Edited March 1, 2018 by snowychap

[snowychap]

3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

How do you control one currency for several countries all with different economies? 

edit: Removed article as probably biased. 

 

With great difficulty and probably ignoring the plight of those that are at the edges much like policy in the UK covers that London and Pontypridd.

[limpid]

24 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I wouldn't have done anything differently. Protecting the EU is more important than an individual country. Screw Greece. 

This doesn't make sense. If Greece had been outside the EU and defaulted, they'd be at the mercy of all their creditors with no ability to control their fate and an almost non-existent negotiating position. Inside the EU, they still have a seat at the table during negotiations and are a voting member of the organisation which holds most of their debt.

The "EU bankers" have / had nothing to do with it. As someone already said, if there was a "mistake" by the EU it was in allowing Greece membership. From Greece's point of view; that wasn't a mistake.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

33 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Look who has come out the woodwork Bliar

If he thinks being in the EU is a good idea,  it probably isn't.  Just a thought but nearly everything he says or is involved in is totally for self interest.

He moans about sacrificing peace.  Didn't he arrange for 1000's to die for no reason or did I get that wrong.  (Way more than have ever died becasue of the Ireland problem?)