Vive_La_Villa Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 10 hours ago, Chindie said: They're all biased. The end. Honestly the most immediate effect of Brexit for me has been the dawning realisation that people really are that stupid, and the system plays them like an orchestra. I knew that was the case to a degree before. But I now realise I grossly underestimated the power of ignorance, and the extent of it. Yes it does seem that our government have shafted us. But then the EU has been shafting the countries that are part of it for years anyway. So we were shafted regardless of which way we voted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 28, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2018 I'm not sure it has. I don't see the equivalence. It's seems like a trite handwave to say it doesn't matter either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: the EU has been shafting the countries that are part of it for years anyway. How have they been doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 5 hours ago, snowychap said: How have they been doing this? see their views on Catalonia, Spanish 'democracy' and Catalan political prisoners for starters, especially that pig Verhofstadt you may also consider the economic plight of the Greeks 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, snowychap said: How have they been doing this? How do you control one currency for several countries all with different economies? edit: Removed article as probably biased. Edited March 1, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: How do you control one currency for several countries all with different economies? One such article that sums it ups. Guess who benefits the most? http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-european-union-has-currency-problem-21449 Isn't the source a US conservative site that has an issue with the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Seat68 said: Isn't the source a US conservative site that has an issue with the EU? I did a quick search to be honest so maybe wrong link to post. Apologies. But there are many such balanced articles and papers out there which explain the currency problem far better than I can ever could. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 6 hours ago, snowychap said: How have they been doing this? Well the EURO was an interesting failure IMO. Before Euro, I had loads and loads of money. After, nothing. Still the case. Some things went up 50-100% overnight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 It would be good if we had some Southern Europeans on the site that could explain how the Euro has affected them. I totally agree we shouldn't have voted to leave without a plan. I get that a large number of people that voted to leave did so solely for Racist and Xenophobic reason. All that stinks and there should never have been a referendum. But amongst all this I don't think we should overlook the fact that the EU has a lot of economic problems and has mainly benefited Germany. Thank god we never adopted the currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 1, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2018 It's benefited more than just Germany. We've benefited. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Chindie said: It's benefited more than just Germany. We've benefited. What about the PIIGS? Have they benefited? Or do you feel their economic problems are solely down to their own economic policies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Just now, Chindie said: It's benefited more than just Germany. We've benefited. The Poles and other former communist countries have benefited most. Wages and standards of living have come on leaps and bounds in places like Czech / Slovakia or former Yugoslavia. Eastern Europe is now the go to place for European manufacturing. The southern countries of western Europe have not done so well out of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What about the PIIGS? Have they benefited? Or do you feel their economic problems are solely down to their own economic policies? Are you asking seriously whether Ireland or Spain have benefitted from being a member of the European Union? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: But amongst all this I don't think we should overlook the fact that the EU has a lot of economic problems Is there any major economy that doesn't have problems? It's a bit like solving a rising damp problem by burning down your house. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Is there any major economy that doesn't have problems? It's a bit like solving a rising damp problem by burning down your house. No there isn't. But the economic fate of a country normally resides with their own government rather than Bankers sitting in Brussels. 5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Are you asking seriously whether Ireland or Spain have benefitted from being a member of the European Union? Yes I am. However based on your answer it sounds like they have. How about Greece, Italy and Portugal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 1, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2018 9 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Yes it does seem that our government have shafted us. But then the EU has been shafting the countries that are part of it for years anyway. So we were shafted regardless of which way we voted. You could rephrase this as "Well being in the EU wasn't perfect, so we may as well just completely **** ourselves over for decades instead" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Yes I am. However based on your answer it sounds like they have. How about Greece, Italy and Portugal? They have all benefitted absolutely massively from being in the world's largest single market, which is why, even in the depths of the Greek crisis, large majorities of the public wanted to remain in the EU. Most of these countries, as poorer countries when they joined, received huge amounts from EU structural funds for another thing. EDIT: Possibly a better question for you to ask is 'have these countries benefitted from Euro membership'? Which would be a closer call. But any disadvantage from Euro membership will still be massively outweighed by the benefits of being in the EU. Edited March 1, 2018 by HanoiVillan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 1, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2018 17 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What about the PIIGS? Have they benefited? Or do you feel their economic problems are solely down to their own economic policies? As the others have said, yes. Spain went from being the poor man of Europe, for instance. Ireland boomed. Etc etc. Being part of a single market with unified regulation has such enormous trade benefits it's hard not to benefit. The euro is a harder question. But even then the EU still helped those countries overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: No there isn't. But the economic fate of a country normally resides with their own government rather than Bankers sitting in Brussels. "Their own Government" put them in that position in the first place. There are plenty of people to blame for the state of Greece, the EU included. But they probably don't even get a podium finish. Out of curiosity, what would you have done differently if you were in the position of the Commission and the ECB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted March 1, 2018 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted March 1, 2018 45 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: No there isn't. But the economic fate of a country normally resides with their own government rather than Bankers sitting in Brussels. Yes I am. However based on your answer it sounds like they have. How about Greece, Italy and Portugal? The mistake with Greece was allowing them to join in the first place 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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