Awol Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 4 hours ago, darrenm said: I just died a little inside watching question time tonight. :-( Where did all this shit come from? Was it always there but dormant and austerity has stirred it all up? A primary school teacher was shouting at a panel member that English wasn't the first language in his playground and that he can't get a doctor's appointment. All because of immigration. A school teacher. Doesn't know that austerity has **** all to do with immigration. Teaching our kids. Last one out switch off the lights. Hang on. Are you seriously saying that English no longer being the first language of pupils in an English school is because of austerity, not because of immigration? I'm not making a judgement on the language issue being a good or bad thing, just trying to understand the logic of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted December 2, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2016 7 hours ago, darrenm said: I just died a little inside watching question time tonight. :-( Where did all this shit come from? Was it always there but dormant and austerity has stirred it all up? A primary school teacher was shouting at a panel member that English wasn't the first language in his playground and that he can't get a doctor's appointment. All because of immigration. A school teacher. Doesn't know that austerity has **** all to do with immigration. Teaching our kids. Last one out switch off the lights. I've had to give up on Question Time. I've said a few times 'that was my last one' but it really has got to the point of just being a platform for unchallenged tripe lately. It's been shouty but ok in the past as people had dumb ideas and would be countered by people with better ideas. But we are seeing the rise of the mouth breather and the realization in politics that you mustn't upset the xenophobe vote or your comfy life in Westminster could stop at the next election. Half the panel are right wing rabble rousers no longer afraid to spout patent rubbish. The other half of the panel are either equally ill informed or, even worse, spineless. Anyway, next week should be a real treat for those with a strong stomach. Mensch and Farage. No doubt 'the left' will be represented by a selection from the Kinnock clan or some prophet of Blair's second coming. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Awol said: Hang on. Are you seriously saying that English no longer being the first language of pupils in an English school is because of austerity, not because of immigration? I'm not making a judgement on the language issue being a good or bad thing, just trying to understand the logic of your post. No, sorry. Wrote it wrong last night. I meant that not being able to get a doctor's appointment (and various other things he said about) is due to austerity. Complaining about the English language being diluted in his school's playground is just standard racism. You can be concerned if there was a legitimate worry that the language is in danger of being wiped out. But I don't think the English language is in particular danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 16 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I've had to give up on Question Time. I've said a few times 'that was my last one' but it really has got to the point of just being a platform for unchallenged tripe lately. It's been shouty but ok in the past as people had dumb ideas and would be countered by people with better ideas. But we are seeing the rise of the mouth breather and the realization in politics that you mustn't upset the xenophobe vote or your comfy life in Westminster could stop at the next election. Half the panel are right wing rabble rousers no longer afraid to spout patent rubbish. The other half of the panel are either equally ill informed or, even worse, spineless. Anyway, next week should be a real treat for those with a strong stomach. Mensch and Farage. No doubt 'the left' will be represented by a selection from the Kinnock clan or some prophet of Blair's second coming. Speaking of Stephen Kinnock, what a pillock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 50 minutes ago, darrenm said: No, sorry. Wrote it wrong last night. I meant that not being able to get a doctor's appointment (and various other things he said about) is due to austerity. Complaining about the English language being diluted in his school's playground is just standard racism. You can be concerned if there was a legitimate worry that the language is in danger of being wiped out. But I don't think the English language is in particular danger. Well it does make teaching a lot harder if half the pupils dont understand the teacher. Thats not racist, just a fact. The solution is to focus on their being more English spoken at home, or for recent immigants providing extra English support classes. My friend is a teacher in a school struggling for many reasons, mostly shitty parents of all stripes, but the language barrier is a huge challenge and it takes precious time away from teaching the lesson itself. That can be aided by having more TAs on hand and the afore mentioned extra Engliah classes but its unfair to go direct to the racism card for an issue that does increase the difficulty of an already stress ridden job. She may well be racist too I cant watch QT, its depressing, and I may be missing a specific context here, but the issue is legitimate ( though as said soluble through sympathetic approaches rather rhan hostility ) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post peterms Posted December 2, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2016 Daily Mail experiments with use of irony... 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Just now, Rodders said: Well it does make teaching a lot harder if half the pupils dont understand the teacher. Thats not racist, just a fact. The solution is to focus on their being more English spoken at home, or for recent immigants providing extra English support classes. My friend is a teacher in a school struggling for many reasons, mostly shitty parents of all stripes, but the language barrier is a huge challenge and it takes precious time away from teaching the lesson itself. That can be aided by having more TAs on hand and the afore mentioned extra Engliah classes but its unfair to go direct to the racism card for an issue that does increase the difficulty of an already stress ridden job. She may well be racist too I cant watch QT, its depressing, and I may be missing a specific context here, but the issue is legitimate ( though as said soluble through sympathetic approaches rather rhan hostility ) I'm sure that English not being the primary language in the playground doesn't mean that kids have difficulty understanding English. There won't be a need to educate English (further than what's already in the curriculum) just to be able to teach other subjects. I've never heard of a school in England struggling to teach the curriculum because of a lack of English comprehension in the kids before. That is concerning and would need to be addressed by the LEA in each specific case. I suppose any school in this situation would not pass an inspection and would get special measures to resolve the problem. I assume that's what's happened in your friend's case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I don't think his problem was with the kids, more the parents who picked the kids up after school talking a different language amongst themselves, which to me just made him sound like he just doesn't like foreigners. I actually thought the panel was pretty decent, Ruth Davidson and Alan Johnson are examples of the more decent sides of the Tory and Labour parties. Though saying that, the other three were a bit shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 hour ago, darrenm said: I'm sure that English not being the primary language in the playground doesn't mean that kids have difficulty understanding English. There won't be a need to educate English (further than what's already in the curriculum) just to be able to teach other subjects. I've never heard of a school in England struggling to teach the curriculum because of a lack of English comprehension in the kids before. That is concerning and would need to be addressed by the LEA in each specific case. I suppose any school in this situation would not pass an inspection and would get special measures to resolve the problem. I assume that's what's happened in your friend's case? Your first point is quite fair, I think re-reading I may have commented on a slightly different element to that intended, of course those with English as their second language are going to revert to their first language if there's plenty of others around to share it, that's quite natural - but nonetheless there are problems in the classroom with diverging capacities. It's certainly not endemic to all schools, and the one my friend was at is particularly rough I recall early on she noted that a good day was not being physically threatened! and it celebrated no longer being the worst school in cardiff ( possible even wales ) quite recently, so it is an extreme example. But as one more problem to add to huge classroom sizes, and all the other pressures on the job, it doesn't help. My friend obviously isn't angry with the kids , and there are other more substantial problems - parents who don't give a shit and sadly adhering to some of the more negative stereotypes - drug habits, too many kids etc - but I think in those situations it just seems like that extra straw - a frustration viewed simply in terms of the pressure on the job rather than from any broader view on immigration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Just had a thought about language and Brexit. I wonder, will the EU use French and German primarily as the language of choice and try and get this used with subtitles ? This would guarantee it would became even less relevant around the world I suspect. Most people can't be arsed to watch, digest and understand the News in English let alone adding the effort of reading as well. (Considering there is a massive portion of the UK population who cannot read or write then I see problems ahead. Dutch I can understand but French / German I have no chance. Snap je ? "(A nice little sentence that means "do you understand" ? which is quite short and sweet for Dutch) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 4 hours ago, darrenm said: Complaining about the English language being diluted in his school's playground is just standard racism. You can be concerned if there was a legitimate worry that the language is in danger of being wiped out. But I don't think the English language is in particular danger. Laurie Penny called him on this and he said that the parents at the school are becoming more segregated (i.e. speaking only to those who share the same nationality and mother tounge) and this permeates down to the children. I do wonder, though, on what scale this can actually happen in a town of which 95% of the population where born there 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: I do wonder, though, on what scale this can actually happen in a town of which 95% of the population where born there This is the problem for me. There's these perceptions made by people in towns relatively untouched by immigration. I worked in a school in Erdington, very multi-cultural, and you had parents chatting at the gate, of all races and backgrounds. If a school is good, it will unite the community regardless of whether you're black, white, brown, blue, whatever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: This is the problem for me. There's these perceptions made by people in towns relatively untouched by immigration. I worked in a school in Erdington, very multi-cultural, and you had parents chatting at the gate, of all races and backgrounds. If a school is good, it will unite the community regardless of whether you're black, white, brown, blue, whatever. Bloody Smurfs coming over here and stealing our school places 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 tbf, if I forget gloves/hat/scarf at mildly freezing levels I basically turn a white-purple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 2, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 2, 2016 5 hours ago, peterms said: Daily Mail experiments with use of irony... Double irony given the reasons he came to this country were the mates of Rothermere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) Carswell's reply to his constituent. https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/5g32j1/i_wrote_a_letter_to_douglas_carswell_mp_today_i/ Quote Hello Mr Carswell, In light of recent events I wanted to write to you about the vote to trigger Article 50. To get the obvious details out of the way I voted to remain in the EU, and I realise I likely will not change your mind since you personally support leaving and you represent a constituency that voted to leave. I do not believe this is the right thing to do. But it is done, and Brexit will happen. I accept this. Consider this message more an appeal, because something terrible is brewing at the moment and I feel like everyone is ignoring it. The "United" Kingdom is divided. Perhaps it has been for a long time, and it's thanks to the referendum that the truth has been pulled kicking and screaming into the public eye. Scotland, Ireland, even Wales I am led to believe have talked about independence. The media has turned up the dials and now tabloids such as the Daily Mail and the Daily Express are goading people into turning on their fellow countrymen. Xenophobic sentiments are on the rise. Any discussion about Brexit and it's issues soon sinks into the most aggressive and toxic communication I have ever seen, even worse than any General Election. And now some people are even striking out against the sovereignty they wanted back in the first place. It's only a matter of time before violence happens. Are leavers content to let this divide grow? To let this resentment fester? Have they not learned from their own experiences of being ignored and ridiculed? Are remainers going to be content with welcoming bad developments? To refuse to acknowledge good things as and when they happen? Brexit will not be a success so long as everyone isn't on the same page. That needs to change. Otherwise a few decades from now all this mess will repeat over. People do not forget. Again, I don't believe I will change your mind. But I would appreciate it if you consider my concerns. Oh, and vote to remain in the EU (you never know.) Thank you Now, on hindsight I regret putting that last line in. It was meant to be a bit of cheeky banter to end a pretty depressing letter on a better note, in the hopes of achieving a wry smile if nothing else. But maybe it just invalidated my point? I'm not sure. As you can see from the thread I wrote that letter ages ago, and given up on actually hearing a reply. But this morning a letter from the House of Commons landed on the mat, and I appreciate Mr Carswell putting the time into actually sending a proper letter when I would have been happy with an email. So, his reply: Thank you very much indeed for your e-mail. I appreciate that you do not like the idea of Britain leaving the European Union, and that you, along with many others, voted to remain in. I respect your point of view. Ever since the night of the referendum count when it began to look as of the Vote Leave side was going to win, I have been at pains to emphasise the need for us to be reasonable, and to reach out to Remainers and try to create a new national consensus. It is very difficult to do that when there are those on the Remain side who persist in trying to subvert and undermine the result. I am starting to come to the opinion that actually, we need to start being much more ruthless. If some people are not willing to accept that Britain will leave the European Union, then we need to be prepared to push ahead with Brexit on our terms. If we see an endless succession of lawyers, judges and failed former politicians like Tony Blair and Nick Clegg trying to thwart the expressed view of the majority, then we need to be prepared to face them down. I would very much like to be able to write to you in conciliatory terms, and to try and meet many of your concerns halfway. However, until there is a willingness amongst the Remain side to recognise that Britain will leave the European Union, I think we may need to be a little bit less conciliatory and a little bit more forthright. I deeply resent the suggestion that people who voted to leave the European Union are somehow bigoted, narrow-minded or in any way responsible for hate crime. It is precisely that sort of attempt to de-legitimise the motives of the Leave side that makes me think we need to start being a little bit more robust in dealing with Remainers. Warm regards, Douglas Carswell MP http://i.imgur.com/Mhdhiea.jpg It's like he hasn't read any of the letter, saw that the constituent voted remain then went on a rant/on the defensive attacking 'remainers'. He has said: "we need to start being a little bit more robust in dealing with Remainers." and "I am starting to come to the opinion that actually, we need to start being much more ruthless." Scary IMO. Edited December 2, 2016 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 18 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: "The "United" Kingdom is divided. Perhaps it has been for a long time, and it's thanks to the referendum that the truth has been pulled kicking and screaming into the public eye. Scotland, Ireland, even Wales I am led to believe have talked about independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Someone typed up Johnson explaining Brexit. A valuable insight into a first-rate mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Mr Dispensable continues his journey of self-marginalisation . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Our Foreign Secretary. It's like he stepped out of Viz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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