meregreen Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 We’ll rejoin because basically there’s nowhere else to frigging go. The next generation, which is overwhelmingly pro EU anyway, will be well and truly shafted by brexit. Just a matter of time, and considerable unnecessary pain, before we take the step back to sanity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jareth said: I'm still eager to know what the plan is for services - they must know that they can make a packet outside of the EU even with the tariffs.... No they can’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 1, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Jareth said: I'm still eager to know what the plan is for services - they must know that they can make a packet outside of the EU even with the tariffs.... I wouldn't bet a single pound of my hard earned cash on that. Even now they probably don't have a clue what they're going to do. Don't forget they never actually expected to win, it was always just a conceptual protest. I reckon they absolutely shat themselves when they won and panicked about what one earth they were going to do. Edited January 1, 2021 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 minute ago, sidcow said: I wouldn't bet a single pound of my hard earned cash on that. Even no they probably don't have a clue what they're going to do. Don't forget they never actually expected to win, it was always just a conceptual protest. I reckon they absolutely shat themselves when they won and panicked about what one earth they were going to do. What many of them did, was offshore their assets. Jacob Rees Mogg being one of the first. We’ve been conned by a bunch of shysters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 1, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, meregreen said: We’ll rejoin because basically there’s nowhere else to frigging go. The next generation, which is overwhelmingly pro EU anyway, will be well and truly shafted by brexit. Just a matter of time, and considerable unnecessary pain, before we take the step back to sanity. I've got a slogan. A bad EU membership is better than a non EU membership. Call the campaign Fixit. Those who want to stay out are shouty outies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, sidcow said: But what is there to make of it? What is this world of new opportunity which awaits us? Where is the promised land? How is the life of everyday man in the street going to be any better in 10 years? Anyone ANYONE we try to trade with in the world will have bigger prizes on offer from bigger trading blocks and more local trading blocks. Where is this greater prosperity going to come from? What are these marvellous new opportunities? Other than bullshit and hot air from Brexiteers about how wonderful it's all going to be, no one can actually say what that will be and how it's to be achieved. I would say our best hope of anything whatsoever is to become America's or China's bitch. It's the biggest Emperors New Clothes con ever perputrated. Well for many, there is a chance life could be better. When did Scotland last vote conservative majority? Wales has never in a hundred years voted for a tory government, yet more than half the time ends up with one. There is a chance here for predominantly conservative England to carry on its programme and let the others get on with theirs. Some can fashion themselves as the new Singapore or Taiwan, others can seek to be progressive EU member states or set up their little Atlantic trading bloc with Ireland. It’s not going to happen tomorrow, but we are at a point where each of the nations could do what they want, not held back by the others. There, surely, is the opportunity to be grasped. It’s not what I wanted and it’s not what I voted for, but I absolutely refuse to sit here and feel like I lost any sort of end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Even the Mail can't spin it. Not a single positive here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Even the Mail can't spin it. Not a single positive here. I'll drink to that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) The only bits are We wouldn't be subject to TTIP and any other future trade deals where private companies are allowed to sue governments if they aren't given parity against state owned companies. E.g. American healthcare companies could sue the government if it gave a healthcare contract to the NHS if the NHS wasn't providing the same value for money. But most of that has been removed now and the Tories will replicate those bits of TTIP in their own US trade deal anyway. We're no longer bound by state aid rules so can dump as much money into state owned companies as we want so they can corner any markets. But it never stopped other countries from doing it. And the Tories would never do that either. Finally, the EU can't force austerity on us by overruling our budget if they think we're overspending like they did with Greece and Italy. So nothing that would really be in the Tories' interest. Edited January 1, 2021 by darrenm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Just now, darrenm said: The only bits are We wouldn't be subject to TTIP and any other future trade deals where private companies are allowed to sue governments if they aren't given parity against state owned companies. E.g. American healthcare companies could sue the government if it gave a healthcare contract to the NHS if the NHS wasn't providing the same value for money. But most of that has been removed now and the Tories will replicate those bits of TTIP in their own US trade deal anyway. We're no longer bound by state aid rules so can dump as much money into state owned companies as we want so they can corner any markets. But it never stopped other countries from doing it. And the Tories wouldn't would never do that either. Finally, the EU can't force austerity on us by overruling our budget if they think we're overspending like they did with Greece and Italy. So nothing that would really be in the Tories' interest. Got rid of the 5% tax on sanitary products. Couldn't go any lower due to EU tax laws 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 21 minutes ago, Mozzavfc said: Got rid of the 5% tax on sanitary products. Couldn't go any lower due to EU tax laws Could potentially see the replacement of the booze cruise with the fanny ferry. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 1, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, darrenm said: We wouldn't be subject to TTIP and any other future trade deals where private companies are allowed to sue governments if they aren't given parity against state owned companies. E.g. American healthcare companies could sue the government if it gave a healthcare contract to the NHS if the NHS wasn't providing the same value for money. But most of that has been removed now and the Tories will replicate those bits of TTIP in their own US trade deal anyway. I still think this was one of the primary drivers of Brexit. When TTiP failed in the EU because of the sheer number of bureaucratic hurdles that were presented (I think some Belgian farmers ended up putting the final nail into the coffin) Using Farage and their influence on media, US business moved immediately to breaking out the UK and it's valuable markets, particularly in health, they'll now put in place the type of trade deal they'd wanted with the EU - investor dispute settlement is by no means the worst of that set of proposals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Will the new CANZUK arrangements and joining the CPTPP in 2021/22 be warmly welcomed on VT? Guess we’ll find out! If we do get a trade deal with the US it’s more likely to be because they’ve joined the CPTPP than a bilateral with UK. The hostility of Biden’s admin to Johnson will likely be tempered by the Franco-German dash to do a deal with the slavers, despite asking Brussels to wait, consult and coordinate once he took office. EU mercantilism is in, and fabled EU ‘values’ in the bin. All shaping up quite nicely now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) Ah there we go, that's what we voted for. We seem to not only have less control over which rules we follow if we want to continue to trade, but are losing control of parts of the UK in ways that'd have been laughed at and dismissed as project fear as recently as months ago. This is a more shit outcome than anyone would have dared suggested when they were trying to win votes. Still, we won, happy independence day everyone. I'm sure someone will be along to tell us how gibraltar and NI don't matter, we've got our sovereignty back! Edited January 1, 2021 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 TTIP was poisoned by the Tories, no doubt they still have the rest of the bottle. A spell of Tory think tanking between then and any future transatlantic deal will get it proper noxious. No pesky little Irish chap to blow the whistle on the blag this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 5 hours ago, sidcow said: But what is there to make of it? What is this world of new opportunity which awaits us? Where is the promised land? How is the life of everyday man in the street going to be any better in 10 years? Anyone ANYONE we try to trade with in the world will have bigger prizes on offer from bigger trading blocks and more local trading blocks. Where is this greater prosperity going to come from? What are these marvellous new opportunities? Other than bullshit and hot air from Brexiteers about how wonderful it's all going to be, no one can actually say what that will be and how it's to be achieved. I would say our best hope of anything whatsoever is to become America's or China's bitch. It's the biggest Emperors New Clothes con ever perputrated. In theory yes, in reality no. The Murcasor deal, which took 20 years to negotiate, and described by the EU as it's biggest was kicked into touch because Austria didn't want it. It was a big deal with South American countries. So the Murcasor countries can have no trade deal with anyone in the EU, 20 odd wanted one and 1 didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 1, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, colhint said: In theory yes, in reality no. The Murcasor deal, which took 20 years to negotiate, and described by the EU as it's biggest was kicked into touch because Austria didn't want it. It was a big deal with South American countries. So the Murcasor countries can have no trade deal with anyone in the EU, 20 odd wanted one and 1 didn't. OK I look forward to these brilliant trade deals which will make us a richer nation with relish. Let me know when we've got something concrete which will change everything for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 1, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, colhint said: In theory yes, in reality no. The Murcasor deal, which took 20 years to negotiate, and described by the EU as it's biggest was kicked into touch because Austria didn't want it. It was a big deal with South American countries. So the Murcasor countries can have no trade deal with anyone in the EU, 20 odd wanted one and 1 didn't. Also the deal of which you speak appears to still be alive. Most of the opposition seems to be connected to destruction of the Amazon Rainforest and the need for Brazil to make assurances about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) well we could negotiate a deal with Murcasor, which includes Brazil, one of the top 10 economies in the world, the EU can't. Austria's objection was about agriculture.Same for the Irish. They will never agree. and you only want one to not sign. Edited January 1, 2021 by colhint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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