Transfer Speculation Summer 2016

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Glad you approve!

I've now emboldened the bit of the quote that would lead any rational being to believe you were drawing the point you made from the comments in John's post.

If this was not in fact a comment on anything said in John's post...err, why did you attach the comment to...John's post?

It was a comment on something John brought up, but wasn't aimed at John.

I don't see how this is hard to follow 

[alreadyexists]

19 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Similar, but not as bad at all.  It may partly be down to where the money is - English players get paid a fortune in the Premier League, even the completely average ones.  So therefore moving abroad just doesn't work financially for them.

Euro 2016 Squads comparatively:

England - 0 players playing abroad

Italy - 7 players playing abroad (4 in the Premier League, 2 at PSG and 1 at Sevilla)

I didn't realise it was as many as that, thought just 2-3. I think the side that won the 2006 WC were 100% playing in Italy, but that was ten years ago. Interesting. 

[Richard]

1 hour ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

I think we'll end up playing Ayew and Kozak up front.

To be honest I wouldnt mind as I like both of them.  I think we will have Ayew and I suspect Kozak will be a squad player as I suspect we will sign another striker so our front four will be Ayew,  Gestede, Kozak and someone else

[John]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

I think this is a huge issue within English football generally (not aimed at you John, but you've brought it up) - this feeling of self-entitlement, that English football is the best thing going and nothing else comes close.  Why else would a young player looking to establish himself even consider leaving these shores?!  Madness!

Personally, I'd encourage more young players to go abroad on loan.  Get a different footballing experience and hone skills that aren't as necessary in our tough, fast, English leagues.  If Bamford feels like he's been around the houses in England (which, let's face it, he has) and fancies something different then fair play to the lad.  Nowhere near enough English players or managers have the same bottle - we're absolutely terrible for moving abroad.

I fully appreciate your point and if playing for a club abroad is the best available option for a player then he would be wise to make such a choice. I just think (biased as I may be) that a move to Villa permanently or on loan with a view to buy might currently offer the player the best way to establish himself.

The reference to his preferring a loan move to a Spanish team suggested to me that he sees a move to any team in Spain that may come in for him as a better option than a move to us (that might not prove to be the case depending on which club(s) make him an offer). He like many Chelsea players have been moved on loan from one club to another potentially to the detriment of their future careers. He needs to recapture the level of performance that he produced at Boro so I think we would offer him chance to do that. It is his decision to make and I would like to see him join us but if he chooses another option then so be it and we will move onto another target.    

Edited July 8, 2016 by John

[rodders0223]

55 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

He can't sign 25 new players. So he has to figure out which of them can be utilised. 

Can't or won't?

Lazy bastard.

[Flynnchin84]

3 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Can't or won't?

Lazy bastard.

[Gary Thomas]

Well the season starts in around four weeks and there is still a hell of a lot to do in the transfer market.  Elphick (and hopefully Tshibola and Gollini) is a reasonable start, but we need to get moving. Will feel better when we have a new striker signed and training - going to be far from ideal trying to integrate someone when the season kicks off.  I get they want to take their time and do things properly, that's definitely the way to go, but hope things ramp now and after Austria - 'outs' as well as 'ins'.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Gary Thomas

[Richard]

I'll be happier when we've shifted a few out actually

[Butterfingers]

24 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don't understand why a title challenge is important all of a sudden?  This is a guy making a loan move somewhere.  It's just about playing football.

r.e: bits in bold, this is pretty much what I'm saying (and, as per my original post, I wasn't aiming anything at John.  He just mentioned the issue).  We're self-important.  The Premier League and La Liga are equally as boring and equally as dominated by the same old teams.  Last season was a huge (5,000/1!) one-off.  It won't be repeated this time round. "Can you ever see a Spanish side doing a Leicester?"

Further, why is a mid-table La Liga team worse than a mid-table Premier League team?  Sevilla just won the Europa League for the third time in a row.  Our sides are tripe in European competition?

Other than kids football where competition and results are secondary to development, every athlete be it amateur or professional should be pushing themselves to the limit, testing themselves at the highest possible level. Simply playing football for some obscure Spanish side is not in the best interests of any 22 year old professional player of Bamfords undoubted ability.

The top 3 last season were 3 teams who are not "the same old teams", unless you class Arsenal in that bracket. Whether Leicester was a one off or not, the fact remains that they maintained it for an entire season-Something a Spanish side wouldn't do.

A mid table Spanish team is worse because they are never competition to the "same old teams", often virtually the whole Barcelona or Real Madrid sides are second string, when playing mid table sides. English sides could never afford to do that because they would risk defeat. An English "same old team" has to be on top of it's game whoever the opposition, week in, week out. That is the difference between the two leagues.

[Ponky]

I wouldn't be surprised if roughly 80% of our squad isn't angling for a move away at this point. The club can't have been a happy place last season and few of them will be that keen to play second tier anywhere.

So It's going to be a chess game if of who we accept bids for, who we fight to keep, whether or not other clubs will make good enough offers etc, at the same time as looking for players not only to plug those gaps but improve squad quality overall. It's an unenviable task really.

 

 

[briny_ear]

29 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It was a comment on something John brought up, but wasn't aimed at John.

I don't see how this is hard to follow 

We'd better leave it there in that case. 

[bobzy]

26 minutes ago, Butterfingers said:

Other than kids football where competition and results are secondary to development, every athlete be it amateur or professional should be pushing themselves to the limit, testing themselves at the highest possible level. Simply playing football for some obscure Spanish side is not in the best interests of any 22 year old professional player of Bamfords undoubted ability.

The top 3 last season were 3 teams who are not "the same old teams", unless you class Arsenal in that bracket. Whether Leicester was a one off or not, the fact remains that they maintained it for an entire season-Something a Spanish side wouldn't do.

A mid table Spanish team is worse because they are never competition to the "same old teams", often virtually the whole Barcelona or Real Madrid sides are second string, when playing mid table sides. English sides could never afford to do that because they would risk defeat. An English "same old team" has to be on top of it's game whoever the opposition, week in, week out. That is the difference between the two leagues.

The implication in your first paragraph is that La Liga is weaker than the Premier League - which is just entirely wrong.  Sure, it happens to have three of the very best clubs in Europe within that league, but playing against those sort of sides is what enhances your ability by what you're saying?  Sevilla finished 7th last season, but were comfortable in retaining the Europa League for the third year in a row.  That's the sort of depth involved in the league.  The finals of Europe's top competitions saw 3 out of the 4 teams playing be Spanish.  Both winners?  Spanish.

Arsenal are most certainly in the "same old team" bracket - but, yes, Leicester and Spurs did very well; obviously Leicester in particular.  They won't be top 6 next season IMO, let alone challenging for the title.  I look forward to another Chelsea/Man City/Man Utd/Arsenal top 4 with Spurs as perennial challengers.  For what it's worth, since 1999/2000 the Premier League and La Liga have had the exact same number of different winners - 5.  That includes Leicester last season.  Up until that point, La Liga was more varied.  But there's less competition, right?

You're entirely wrong about Barcelona and Real Madrid being mainly second string - and certainly entirely wrong when compared to the rotation shown by similarly strong clubs in England.  In fact, I reckon Man City rotated their squad more than either of the Spanish giants last season.  Further, for what it's worth, Leicester lost fewer games than any other side in either league.  But the Spanish teams don't lose as much, right?

[AJ]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Assess last years squad ?  - how long is that going take ? - we won 3 games, couldn't defend, couldn't score. I don't see what seeing the players training will tell him that he doesn't already know. I hope (and suspect) he is further down the line with in-comings than assessing last seasons squad !

Maybe, D Mat wants to see things for himself and answer the questions, is the team full of bad players, or is it just a bad team, or maybe both? We have had players who we considered crap leave Villa and play out of their skin for another team. ( eg. Albrighton ) We also had players that had some degree of promise upon buying, but have also turned crap. ( almost any player bought last summer). Sinclair, for example, was terrible this year, but quite handy towards the tail end of the season before. So what happened? Watching the way Villa played last season, you would not think that they were trying to win a game of football. Players running nowhere, passes straight to the opposition, and a general fear of taking players on. Is there a rift in the dressing room? (Probably) Do the players throw any sense of tactics out the window once they get out on the pitch? ( Survey says yes) As Leicester surprised everyone by winning it without using  a budget similar to a small to medium country, by playing good football as a team, Villa were doing the complete opposite. It is all well and good to think who needs replacing, but some players may need to relearn how to play football again. If new players come in, and we are just served the same crap as last season, well, Villa have just wasted their time and money.

[Butterfingers]

19 minutes ago, bobzy said:

The implication in your first paragraph is that La Liga is weaker than the Premier League - which is just entirely wrong.  Sure, it happens to have three of the very best clubs in Europe within that league, but playing against those sort of sides is what enhances your ability by what you're saying?  Sevilla finished 7th last season, but were comfortable in retaining the Europa League for the third year in a row.  That's the sort of depth involved in the league.  The finals of Europe's top competitions saw 3 out of the 4 teams playing be Spanish.  Both winners?  Spanish.

Arsenal are most certainly in the "same old team" bracket - but, yes, Leicester and Spurs did very well; obviously Leicester in particular.  They won't be top 6 next season IMO, let alone challenging for the title.  I look forward to another Chelsea/Man City/Man Utd/Arsenal top 4 with Spurs as perennial challengers.  For what it's worth, since 1999/2000 the Premier League and La Liga have had the exact same number of different winners - 5.  That includes Leicester last season.  Up until that point, La Liga was more varied.  But there's less competition, right?

You're entirely wrong about Barcelona and Real Madrid being mainly second string - and certainly entirely wrong when compared to the rotation shown by similarly strong clubs in England.  In fact, I reckon Man City rotated their squad more than either of the Spanish giants last season.  Further, for what it's worth, Leicester lost fewer games than any other side in either league.  But the Spanish teams don't lose as much, right?

That's fine. You've posted your opinion, I've posted mine. It's not something I'm overly bothered about in any case, I prefer to talk about the Villa.

You think it would be good for a 22 year old to drop down a level in order just to play football, I think he doesn't need to and if he has any form of ambition, he won't.

The Twitter thing could be complete crap in any case.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Just now, Butterfingers said:

That's fine. You've posted your opinion, I've posted mine. It's not something I'm overly bothered about in any case, I prefer to talk about the Villa.

You think it would be good for a 22 year old to drop down a level in order just to play football, I think he doesn't need to and if he has any form of ambition, he won't.

The Twitter thing could be complete crap in any case.

Wasn't his point that he's NOT dropping down a level?

What would dropping into the championship be?

[Dante_Lockhart]

1 hour ago, Richard said:

To be honest I wouldnt mind as I like both of them.  I think we will have Ayew and I suspect Kozak will be a squad player as I suspect we will sign another striker so our front four will be Ayew,  Gestede, Kozak and someone else

Gabby

[sparrow1988]

1 minute ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Gabby

[bobzy]

12 minutes ago, Butterfingers said:

That's fine. You've posted your opinion, I've posted mine. It's not something I'm overly bothered about in any case, I prefer to talk about the Villa.

You think it would be good for a 22 year old to drop down a level in order just to play football, I think he doesn't need to and if he has any form of ambition, he won't.

The Twitter thing could be complete crap in any case.

No - I think it's good for a 22 year old to broaden his footballing horizon and pick up skills which are better utilised in a different league.  I don't think he'd be showing ambition coming to Villa over Real Sociedad.  In fact, he'd probably be showing less ambition.

You're right though, differing opinions.  Factually, La Liga is a stronger league.

Edited July 8, 2016 by bobzy

[dn1982]

Last year we underperformed so badly it's easy to write off every player.  We lacked leadership on and off the pitch. Once the confidence had gone we became so brittle it was unbelievable. A confident player coached properly will perform a lot better. Once RDM has assessed the squad he'll know who he needs. He'll find out a lot in the training camp as he'll see them up close for a week I then expect us to see him shape his squad. He is already addressing the biggest issues we've all spotted GK CB CM and we are linked with a few CF that's the start. Then I think he'll start upgrading on the players here by shifting the ones out he don't want and upgrading to ones he can work with. Gollini Richards Okore Elphick Amavi Tshibola Gana Grealish Traore Ayew Gestede isn't a bad Championship side.  

[AJ]

3 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

Last year we underperformed so badly it's easy to write off every player.  We lacked leadership on and off the pitch. Once the confidence had gone we became so brittle it was unbelievable. A confident player coached properly will perform a lot better. Once RDM has assessed the squad he'll know who he needs. He'll find out a lot in the training camp as he'll see them up close for a week I then expect us to see him shape his squad. He is already addressing the biggest issues we've all spotted GK CB CM and we are linked with a few CF that's the start. Then I think he'll start upgrading on the players here by shifting the ones out he don't want and upgrading to ones he can work with. Gollini Richards Okore Elphick Amavi Tshibola Gana Grealish Traore Ayew Gestede isn't a bad Championship side.  

What concerns me is that there might be a bit of " Jeckyll and Hyde" going on with some of the players. What they say and how they apply themselves during training might indicate that they want every success for the team, but once they are on the pitch, they leave their care factor in the change room. I hope RDM has a fully functional bullshit detector when assessing the squad.