villa4europe Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Yeah I've heard that arguement from the neighbourhood watch nutters, but I can't say that is an arguement that is reasonable. Crazy country of uneducated imbeciles. The thing is they celebrate their army as being the biggest baddest bestest thing on the planet... And then they have this crazy belief that one day they might need to have their bum slapped and kept in check by the common folk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted July 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: The one thing that's hard for me to understand is how civilians still are able to purchase military grade rifles. There's no argument I've ever heard that in any way holds water, which leads me to think it's a pure NRA lobby thing. It really is an NRA lobbying and PR thing. Prior to Wayne LaPierre's elevation to leadership in the mid-70's, the NRA was largely an apolitical sport/hunting group. They weren't pushing for the right to have military weapons or the right to open and concealed carry like they do today. They weren't pushing the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment as being an absolute right for anyone to own anything, nor was anyone else, really. Since then, they've been pushing those things non-stop, spending tons of money on lobbying, "education" and PR and doomsday appeals to members that the big bad left wanted to take ALL their guns away and take away their ability to PROTECT THEIR FAMILIES because, you know everybody's household is under siege by evil strangers with guns. Now it's almost accepted by everyone that the 2nd Amendment has no limitations, helped partly by some supreme court rulings that didn't go quite that far but helped their cause (you still can't legally own SAM's and the like, though nobody ever talks about the big stuff as being part of the arms referred to in the 2nd). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2020 What gets me is that whenever somebody talks about gun control, the shooters squeal "But the Constitution!" But the Constitution can be changed - the clue is in... the second AMENDMENT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 The fact that they stick to their guns, refusing change, because of a law from 1791. Unreal. Quite a lot has happened the last 230 years, but clearly not enough to remove some wild west law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: The fact that they stick to their guns, refusing change, because of a law from 1791. Unreal. Quite a lot has happened the last 230 years, but clearly not enough to remove some wild west law. Would you carry a piece if you lived in America, Serious question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Would you carry a piece if you lived in America, Serious question No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Would you carry a piece if you lived in America, Serious question Maybe a similar question could be asked of @Dom_Wren Dom, prior to moving to the states what was your attitude to guns, if any? What was the catalyst for any change, sport? Protection? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Would you carry a piece if you lived in America, Serious question No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2020 20 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: No. Like to think the same but not sure if I lived there, Especially if I lived in a high crime area with high gun ownership. As mentioned above would be interesting to get the opinion of someone who has moved over there who faces the day to day dilemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Like to think the same but not sure if I lived there, Especially if I lived in a high crime area with high gun ownership. As mentioned above would be interesting to get the opinion of someone who has moved over there who faces the day to day dilemma I just don't think owning a gun would make me feel safer. But who knows, when you live with awful stuff you might see it differently. But I genuinly think I'd rather move and/or relocate rather then putting a sig in my drawer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I just don't think owning a gun would make me feel safer. But who knows, when you live with awful stuff you might see it differently. But I genuinly think I'd rather move and/or relocate rather then putting a sig in my drawer. Fair comment, I suppose a lot of it has to do with being brainwashed into the gun ownership ideal from birth, Like you previously said, generally they are quite imbecilic by default Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted July 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 9, 2020 43 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Like to think the same but not sure if I lived there, Especially if I lived in a high crime area with high gun ownership. As mentioned above would be interesting to get the opinion of someone who has moved over there who faces the day to day dilemma The bigger question is, would you be prepared to shoot someone at point blank range. If the answer to that is No, then there's your answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Fair comment, I suppose a lot of it has to do with being brainwashed into the gun ownership ideal from birth, Like you previously said, generally they are quite imbecilic by default You mean the people on videos that are filmed purely because they are idiots. I know gun owners and they are pretty sane. I follow a lot of pro guns, pro nra people on social media, they are not imbeciles. For every S Carolina confederate idiot, there are scores of normal people that just own a gun. Edited July 9, 2020 by Seat68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Seat68 said: You mean the people on videos that are filmed purely because they are idiots. I know gun owners and they are pretty sane. I follow a lot of pro guns, pro nra people on social media, they are not imbeciles. For every S Carolina confederate idiot, there are scores of normal people that just own a gun. Yes mate, like the ones in the picture earlier in the thread, I’m led to believe there are plenty of them, I could well be wrong Edited July 9, 2020 by Follyfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Follyfoot said: Would you carry a piece if you lived in America, Serious question No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I just don't think owning a gun would make me feel safer. But who knows, when you live with awful stuff you might see it differently. But I genuinly think I'd rather move and/or relocate rather then putting a sig in my drawer. Statistically speaking you're more likely to be killed by your own gun than you are to use it in a justifiable homicide. So even those arguing for self defence, are actually putting themselves more at risk by owning one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Yes mate, like the ones in the picture earlier in the thread, I’m led to believe there are plenty of them, I could well be wrong The thing is, there are hundreds of millions of people in the US. A portion will be the nicest person you could possibly meet, a portion will be absolute psycho killers. The vast vast majority of people in the US manage to get through life without shooting anyone. But I can understand, when you might be an hour or 4 hours or 6 hours from police help coming to your aid, a gun might be a good last resort insurance policy. You probably get to hoping that having the gun, or most likely having the gun, might make the bad guys go try somewhere else. It’ll vary depending where you’re at and how much of a victim group you are in, or perceive yourself to be in. It’s not purely down to being an inner city criminal or a red neck dipshit. But as mentioned previously, a gun safely locked away is of limited use, whereas a gun easily to hand and useable, is a crazy risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said: The bigger question is, would you be prepared to shoot someone at point blank range. If the answer to that is No, then there's your answer. I don't think anyone knows the answer to this question. There is abundant after-action literature from various global militaries going all the way back to WWI and what people say or what they look like, does not predict what they'll do when it happens. I live here and have no interest in having a gun in my home. I do live in a lower crime part of the state. I still think that if I was in that situation, I would act. Would I though, or would I fall over in a puddle of my own pee?!? There are certain situations where the glib 'talk is cheap' is very, very applicable. Edited July 9, 2020 by villakram 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 3 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: The bigger question is, would you be prepared to shoot someone at point blank range. If the answer to that is No, then there's your answer. Most people (most men, primarily) will be reading this question and imagining 'a big nasty intruder has broken in to my house and I'm the last line of defence between him and my wife and kids', whereas the more likely scenario is something more like 'I'm drunk and having psychological problems and my wife has just told me she wants a divorce and she's looking for full custody'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Most people (most men, primarily) will be reading this question and imagining 'a big nasty intruder has broken in to my house and I'm the last line of defence between him and my wife and kids', whereas the more likely scenario is something more like 'I'm drunk and having psychological problems and my wife has just told me she wants a divorce and she's looking for full custody'. Or even just 'I feel depressed and want to end it all'. Attempting suicide with a gun in the house is unsurprisingly way more lethal and crucially quick to access than any other method. As @Stevo985 said, you are much more likely to kill yourself or a loved one, be it deliberate or by accident, simply by having a gun in the house. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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