Gun violence in the USA

[HanoiVillan]

8 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Or even just 'I feel depressed and want to end it all'.  Attempting suicide with a gun in the house is unsurprisingly way more lethal and crucially quick to access than any other method. As @Stevo985 said, you are much more likely to kill yourself or a loved one, be it deliberate or by accident, simply by having a gun in the house. 

Yes - I was focusing on the 'would you be prepared to shoot another human' aspect to it, but as you note, it's even more likely you shoot yourself with it.

[Follyfoot]

42 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Most people (most men, primarily) will be reading this question and imagining 'a big nasty intruder has broken in to my house and I'm the last line of defence between him and my wife and kids', whereas the more likely scenario is something more like 'I'm drunk and having psychological problems and my wife has just told me she wants a divorce and she's looking for full custody'.

Playing Devils Advocate what happens when the least likely scenario occurs and the big nasty intruder in your house commits an atrocity against you and your family, according to the FBI there are 1.2 million burglaries a year in the US. Low as a percentage of the population but still a hell of a lot as a number. Granted not all are violent but all have the potential to turn violent. Knowing you could have legally owned a deterrent and use that deterrent, but decided on a moral level not to, would be a major headf**k 

[sharkyvilla]

3 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Playing Devils Advocate what happens when the least likely scenario occurs and the big nasty intruder in your house commits an atrocity against you and your family, according to the FBI there are 1.2 million burglaries a year in the US. Low as a percentage of the population but still a hell of a lot as a number. Granted not all are violent but all have the potential to turn violent. Knowing you could have legally owned a deterrent and use that deterrent, but decided on a moral level not to, would be a major headf**k 

I think I'd still feel safer with a decent quality security system and a baseball bat in the bedroom (I have a cricket bat in my room for what it's worth) than ever having a gun in the house.  I'd be most scared of getting caught up in a police shooting or mass killing spree in which case having my own gun would be pretty useless.

[Straggler]

Would you keep a primed bear trap in your bathroom?  Would you put land mines in your garden?  Would you hang a sword above your bed with some string? Give your kids a rattle? Hell no, you got them a rattle snake.

If your answer to the above is yes, or 'of course I've already done this' then you need to complete the set with a gun!

GUNS! They're for killing.

[Dom_Wren]

5 hours ago, Seat68 said:

Maybe a similar question could be asked of @Dom_Wren 

Dom, prior to moving to the states what was your attitude to guns, if any? What was the catalyst for any change, sport? Protection? 
 

great question mate! id only ever seen hunting shotguns in the UK, as i lived in the sticks. 

My catalyst was target shooting. Its my golf, me and the target, intrinsic feedback to make the bully. Then it evolved when i did research into concealed carry, longer range target shooting, and then it evolved more into finding a culture of similar minded people, gun ranges etc...

Yes a big part of it is protection for sure, ive just recently bought a tactical shotgun for home defense as things were looking really hairy here.

Ive always said im more than happy to answer questions, so fire away, pun intended

[Straggler]

7 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Playing Devils Advocate what happens when the least likely scenario occurs and the big nasty intruder in your house commits an atrocity against you and your family, according to the FBI there are 1.2 million burglaries a year in the US. Low as a percentage of the population but still a hell of a lot as a number. Granted not all are violent but all have the potential to turn violent. Knowing you could have legally owned a deterrent and use that deterrent, but decided on a moral level not to, would be a major headf**k 

Most burglaries happen with the house empty.  The aggressive home invader is a bit of an NRA fantasy that is talked about and prepared for way out of proportion with the amount it happens.  That said I won't pretend that it can't and never happens.  Even in the scenario you have put here, unless you are very expert with a gun you are still as likely to hit your own family as you are the intruder or have the gun taken off you and used against you.

Again there are way more cases of family being mistaken for intruders and shot than there are of actual intruders being shot.  A genuine consequence of the home invader fantasy that keeps many a gun nut up at night stroking their piece.

[Follyfoot]

2 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Most burglaries happen with the house empty.  The aggressive home invader is a bit of an NRA fantasy that is talked about and prepared for way out of proportion with the amount it happens.  That said I won't pretend that it can't and never happens.  Even in the scenario you have put here, unless you are very expert with a gun you are still as likely to hit your own family as you are the intruder or have the gun taken off you and used against you.

Again there are way more cases of family being mistaken for intruders and shot than there are of actual intruders being shot.  A genuine consequence of the home invader fantasy that keeps many a gun nut up at night stroking their piece.

Last sentence made me spit out my coffee  

[Xela]

6 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

Would you carry a piece if you lived in America, Serious question

If I lived in a big city like New York or Boston, then no. 

If it was somewhere remote, then probably yes. 

[Dom_Wren]

1 minute ago, Xela said:

If I lived in a big city like New York or Boston, then no. 

If it was somewhere remote, then probably yes. 

id carry one if i lived in Brum!!!!!

[chrisp65]

33 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Playing Devils Advocate what happens when the least likely scenario occurs and the big nasty intruder in your house commits an atrocity against you and your family, according to the FBI there are 1.2 million burglaries a year in the US. Low as a percentage of the population but still a hell of a lot as a number. Granted not all are violent but all have the potential to turn violent. Knowing you could have legally owned a deterrent and use that deterrent, but decided on a moral level not to, would be a major headf**k 

U.S. Department of justice stats on home invasion of occupied homes (2010):

Quote

For households occupied at the time of the burglary, offenders
were equally likely to gain unlawful entry through an open
(27%) or unlocked (28%) door or window.

In an average year, 266,000 home invasion / burglaries end in violence on the home owner of any kind.

61% of all assailants were unarmed.

I’m reading between the lines a lot here, but I get the impression a lot of ‘violent home invasion’ might be called domestic assault, in the UK. 

Of those 266,000 cases, the assailant was known to the victim 65% of the time. So less than 90,000 violent break ins, by strangers, in a country of 330 million.

55% of burglars gained entry through open windows and unlocked doors. A further 18% were willingly let in by the victim and only later became violent. 

In 4% of cases of violent home invasion, the perp used their own key.

Take away the people that live in Detroit and leave their door open, take away the people where it was the boyfriend and take away the people that live on the ground floor and sleep with the windows open and it’s a vanishingly small number of actual violent break ins by strangers.

Far better than getting a gun, invest in a pack of post it notes and write ‘close the front door’ on them and pop one on the fridge and one on your pillow.

 

 

 

[Dom_Wren]

6 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

Would you carry a piece if you lived in America, Serious question

I do live in the states and have my concealed carry permit allowing me to carry a firearm. Do i carry everywhere? no, as i like to have a beer with lunch/dinner etc.. and you're not allowed to carry whist having a tot.

I mainly carry if im going on road trips (we have reciprocity with other states allowing you to carry).

[villakram]

2 hours ago, Dom_Wren said:

I do live in the states and have my concealed carry permit allowing me to carry a firearm. Do i carry everywhere? no, as i like to have a beer with lunch/dinner etc.. and you're not allowed to carry whist having a tot.

I mainly carry if im going on road trips (we have reciprocity with other states allowing you to carry).

What changes would you like to see implemented, e.g., Should there be a little on the number of registered firearms per household? What do you think about the idea of having to insure your guns. The obvious gun talking points or anything else that comes into your mind as a gun owner and a CC holder.

I know that's a lot, so I appreciate any thoughts you have. Sensible gun discussion is kinda tough to have around here (mainly in that I don't know many gun owners), and the media is only ever interested in clicks these days. 

[sharkyvilla]

4 hours ago, Dom_Wren said:

I do live in the states and have my concealed carry permit allowing me to carry a firearm. Do i carry everywhere? no, as i like to have a beer with lunch/dinner etc.. and you're not allowed to carry whist having a tot.

I mainly carry if im going on road trips (we have reciprocity with other states allowing you to carry).

Am I right in remembering that you recently got the right to vote and voted Republican because of the gun rights?  Would you vote for Trump in November?

[villa4europe]

5 hours ago, Dom_Wren said:

id carry one if i lived in Brum!!!!!

Serious? Why? And if so then sorry but that's just what the media want you to believe, a lot of gun ownership and safety issues etc I think stem from being scared of crime and other gun owners

I personally don't feel like that at home or out and about, definitley not in brum 

Would I own a gun if I lived in the states? Hard to tell, I would almost definitely be part of a gun club and enjoy shooting some serious weapons for fun down a range in a controlled environment that's for sure, I love shooting in the uk but out and about or at home? I just don't have that mentality that I need to protect my family, from what exactly? If crime was that bad and I was that scared of it then its not somewhere I could live, moving would be my first choice over a gun under my bed 

I'm not sat in bed right now with my wife and child with a single grain of concern that someone is coming in to my house tonight so I need a gun, **** that that's no way to live your life 

Edited July 9, 2020 by villa4europe

[Follyfoot]

4 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Serious? Why? And if so then sorry but that's just what the media want you to believe, a lot of gun ownership and safety issues etc I think stem from being scared of crime and other gun owners

I personally don't feel like that at home or out and about, definitley not in brum 

Would I own a gun if I lived in the states? Hard to tell, I would almost definitely be part of a gun club and enjoy shooting some serious weapons for fun down a range in a controlled environment that's for sure, I love shooting in the uk but out and about or at home? I just don't have that mentality that I need to protect my family, from what exactly? If crime was that bad and I was that scared of it then its not somewhere I could live, moving would be my first choice over a gun under my bed 

I'm not sat in bed right now with my wife and child with a single grain of concern that someone is coming in to my house tonight so I need a gun, **** that that's no way to live your life 

Crimes a disease, you need to be the cure

[Dom_Wren]

10 hours ago, villakram said:

What changes would you like to see implemented, e.g., Should there be a little on the number of registered firearms per household? What do you think about the idea of having to insure your guns. The obvious gun talking points or anything else that comes into your mind as a gun owner and a CC holder.

I know that's a lot, so I appreciate any thoughts you have. Sensible gun discussion is kinda tough to have around here (mainly in that I don't know many gun owners), and the media is only ever interested in clicks these days. 

I appreciate your willingness to engage in dialog, i think as a gun 'enthusiast' for wont of a better word i do get a bad rap!

 

The biggest thing id like to see is a ban on bump stocks, these are the things the las vegas shooter was able to use to aid him in multiple killings, no true gun owner has a use for those.

 

I def am agreement with the no alcohol policy (FL i believe has no such policy paging @Brumerican)

 

apart from that mate its tough for me as i am responsible gun owner, so i do everything right and by the books. i dont have all the answers but more than willing to answer respectful questions like yours honestly!

[Dom_Wren]

7 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Serious? Why? And if so then sorry but that's just what the media want you to believe, a lot of gun ownership and safety issues etc I think stem from being scared of crime and other gun owners

I personally don't feel like that at home or out and about, definitley not in brum 

Would I own a gun if I lived in the states? Hard to tell, I would almost definitely be part of a gun club and enjoy shooting some serious weapons for fun down a range in a controlled environment that's for sure, I love shooting in the uk but out and about or at home? I just don't have that mentality that I need to protect my family, from what exactly? If crime was that bad and I was that scared of it then its not somewhere I could live, moving would be my first choice over a gun under my bed 

I'm not sat in bed right now with my wife and child with a single grain of concern that someone is coming in to my house tonight so I need a gun, **** that that's no way to live your life 

sorry mate, i was only joking, my cousin had told me some horror stories around certain parts of brum. I would def not carry an illegal firearm on me! my bad!

[Dom_Wren]

8 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

Am I right in remembering that you recently got the right to vote and voted Republican because of the gun rights?  Would you vote for Trump in November?

I became a citizen in 2017, and i respectfully decline to let anybody (wife and mum included) who i vote for!

 

Trump and the election, oh boy thats a completely different conversation!

[Brumerican]

5 hours ago, Dom_Wren said:

I def am agreement with the no alcohol policy (FL i believe has no such policy paging @Brumerican)

Lawless swamp fam.

[chrisp65]

5 hours ago, Dom_Wren said:

sorry mate, i was only joking, my cousin had told me some horror stories around certain parts of brum. I would def not carry an illegal firearm on me! my bad!

 

There has recently been an armed raid on a bingo club in the Birmingham / Midlands area.

It was machetes not guns, but all the same, bad boys steamed in and demanded money.

Unfortunately, they mis timed it and the guys on the slots had committed a lot of money and were very invested in keeping their machine to get their payout and the guys in the main hall were mid game. So the reaction was a few people telling them to shush and most people just ignoring them.

They shouted and banged about, and then ran back out.

I think it’s at least in part, a state of mind. You can worry about machete gangs, or you can tell them them to **** off because you’re waiting on one number...