Gun violence in the USA

[Mic09]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

Sure. 'Divided by a common language' etc. But, contra your points yesterday, making firearm sales illegal certainly would reduce gun deaths, so I don't feel as much mourning as I used to. As a country, they have chosen to uphold their culture over protecting human life, and that's their choice to make (they have sovereignty after all), but it *is* a conscious decision. 

You might be right, and I think you are.

As a nation (of course many disagree) Americans very much value the freedom from any government oppression. When the country was first founded, most believed that the government cannot tell them what they can or cannot own. This sits very deep in their culture, but of course the as the role of the government increases (and it's doing so in most of the world) I can see many of these freedoms that they hold dear taken away.

It might just be a few more generations before guns are banned.

As to the previous point I made, America is a very interesting example and a very extreme one. For instance, when we look at Europe alone and gun laws here, it is not as clear that more legal guns = more gun deaths. For instance, Austria has much more lenient laws than Finland, yet Finland sees more gun crime. 

When discussing the topic we need to look at statistics such as what social groups commit those crimes, depression and mental state of citizens etc. Very complex topic. 

[kurtsimonw]

1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

As to the previous point I made, America is a very interesting example and a very extreme one. For instance, when we look at Europe alone and gun laws here, it is not as clear that more legal guns = more gun deaths. For instance, Austria has much more lenient laws than Finland, yet Finland sees more gun crime. 

While I don't disagree completely, it's a leading factor. You will get outliers, particularly in smaller countries where the figures are affected by a smaller sample size.

Of all European countries with 5million people or more, do you not see a correlation here?

Top 10 nations, per capita, for firearm related deaths and firearms owned. The numbers represent their rank in firearm related deaths.

1	Serbia	Serbia	1
2	Finland	Norway	7
3	Switzerland	Austria	4
4	Austria	Finland	2
5	France	Switzerland	3
6	Czech Republic	Greece	11
7	Norway	Germany	16
8	Bulgaria	Czech Republic	6
9	Sweden	France	5
10	Portugal	Italy	14

Bottom 5 nations, per capita, for firearm related deaths and firearms owned. The numbers represent their rank in firearm related deaths.

1	Romania	Azerbaijan	4
2	Poland	Romania	1
3	UK	UK	3
4	Azerbaijan	Poland	2
5	Netherlands	Netherlands	5

I don't think it's pure coincidence that the bottom 5 in deaths also happen to be the bottom 5 in firearms owned. I also think it's no coincidence that 7 of the top 10 in terms of firearm related deaths also happen to be in the top 10 of firearms owned. Then, again, 4 of the top 5 appear in both lists.

Again, gun ownership is not the only reason for this. Iceland doesn't have much of an issue, but it's such a small nation it's difficult to really take any kind of data from that. Gun laws are great, but ultimately if guns are so easily accessible, do they even matter? the US has over 300 million guns, just over 1 million of those are registered. The issue isn't legal weapons and the laws that go with them, it goes beyond that.

Edited September 6, 2019 by kurtsimonw

[villa4europe]

so in response to the shootings in texas the governor has issued 8 executive orders to help prevent mass shootings

guess how many of them mention guns?

we've all been wrong, mass shootings don't occur more often in America because of guns, they occur because Americans don't report suspicious activity properly, now it all makes sense

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

so in response to the shootings in texas the governor has issued 8 executive orders to help prevent mass shootings

guess how many of them mention guns?

we've all been wrong, mass shootings don't occur more often in America because of guns, they occur because Americans don't report suspicious activity properly, now it all makes sense

Mandatory thoughts and prayers every morning?

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Mandatory thoughts and prayers every morning?

Potentially its the video games too.

[Rodders]

every time I see this thread title on the home page of villa talk I can't help but think that's a crap title for a Springsteen song. 

 

Anyway... gun violence will of course only end when every home / school/ office has at least 4 rapid fire motion-sensor machine guns located on the outside. 

 

Can't be attacked if every one on the street is already dead *taps head*

[bannedfromHandV]

9 minutes ago, Genie said:

Potentially its the video games too.

And the Muslims, don't forget the Muslims.

(despite that fact that Americans continue to kill more Americans on a daily basis than have been killed by Muslims in the past 5 years)

[villa4europe]

10 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

And the Muslims, don't forget the Muslims.

 

You misunderstand

Muslims (along with the gays obviously) has led to the decrease in Christian values in the country, letting the devil back in, which has resulted in this gun crime 

[il_serpente]

16 hours ago, villa4europe said:

You misunderstand

Muslims (along with the gays obviously) has led to the decrease in Christian values in the country, letting the devil back in, which has resulted in this gun crime 

Unfortunately, far too many, including people in positions of some authority, believe this.

[peterms]

On 06/09/2019 at 07:49, BillyShears said:

Just out of interest, UK people, who carries a weapon in their car?

In Edinburgh, we tend to deploy a mildly disapproving frown instead.

[BillyShears]

8 hours ago, peterms said:

In Edinburgh, we tend to deploy a mildly disapproving frown instead.

Probably as effective as thoughts and prayers

[Xela]

Don't forget lighting a tealight

[BillyShears]

Texas Governor has introduced some new executive orders regarding guns following the recent shootings: You can now carry a gun in more places. This will lead to more good guys with guns in more places.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-gun-laws-governor-greg-abbott-issues-8-executive-orders-after-el-paso-odessa-midland-shootings/

Quote

Texas Governor Greg Abbott issued eight executive orders Thursday that aim to stop potential mass shooters by strengthening reporting techniques, although he conceded in a release that "legislative action" is still needed. Abbott's orders come as the Lone Star State reels from two mass shootings in August that left 29 people dead.

"Texas must achieve several objectives to better protect our communities and our residents from mass shootings" Abbott said in a statement. "One of those objectives is to marshal law enforcement resources to stop violent criminals before they commit mass murders. But more must be done. I will continue to work expeditiously with the legislature on laws to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous criminals, while safeguarding the 2nd Amendment rights of law-abiding Texans."

The laws that took effect Sunday will:

• Allow licensed handgun owners to carry weapons in places of worship, including churches and synagogues.
• Ban landlords and homeowners from prohibiting tenants to own, carry and transport guns on their property.
• Prevent school districts from prohibiting licensed gun owners — including school employees — from storing guns and ammunition in school parking lots as long as it is not in plain view.
• Allow foster homes to store firearms.
• Prevent citizens for being charged for carrying a handgun without a license while evacuating or returning to a declared disaster zone.
• Allow disaster shelters to take in evacuees who have guns.
• Allow schools to have more armed marshals on campus.
• Defend licensed gun owners who unknowingly enter designated gun-free zones as long as they leave after being told about the policy.

Edited September 7, 2019 by BillyShears

[sne]

 

[villakram]

T&P for Cali this time. Fortunately, it appears only a single death.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-shooting/student-gunman-kills-one-wounds-others-at-california-high-school-idUSKBN1XO2C0

"A California high school student dressed in black is suspected of having opened fire on campus on Thursday, killing at least one person and wounding several others before he was arrested, officials said."

[villa4europe]

Another one that doesn't register much interest, someone opened fire in the crowd at a high school football match, don't think any dead but at least 2 injured 

[villakram]

On 16/11/2019 at 13:54, villa4europe said:

Another one that doesn't register much interest, someone opened fire in the crowd at a high school football match, don't think any dead but at least 2 injured 

Oh, but it's ok as the local NFL team are now allowing them to use their stadium for a game 

[KenjiOgiwara]

On 06/09/2019 at 12:32, kurtsimonw said:

While I don't disagree completely, it's a leading factor. You will get outliers, particularly in smaller countries where the figures are affected by a smaller sample size.

Of all European countries with 5million people or more, do you not see a correlation here?

Top 10 nations, per capita, for firearm related deaths and firearms owned. The numbers represent their rank in firearm related deaths.

1	Serbia	Serbia	1
2	Finland	Norway	7
3	Switzerland	Austria	4
4	Austria	Finland	2
5	France	Switzerland	3
6	Czech Republic	Greece	11
7	Norway	Germany	16
8	Bulgaria	Czech Republic	6
9	Sweden	France	5
10	Portugal	Italy	14

Bottom 5 nations, per capita, for firearm related deaths and firearms owned. The numbers represent their rank in firearm related deaths.

1	Romania	Azerbaijan	4
2	Poland	Romania	1
3	UK	UK	3
4	Azerbaijan	Poland	2
5	Netherlands	Netherlands	5

I don't think it's pure coincidence that the bottom 5 in deaths also happen to be the bottom 5 in firearms owned. I also think it's no coincidence that 7 of the top 10 in terms of firearm related deaths also happen to be in the top 10 of firearms owned. Then, again, 4 of the top 5 appear in both lists.

Again, gun ownership is not the only reason for this. Iceland doesn't have much of an issue, but it's such a small nation it's difficult to really take any kind of data from that. Gun laws are great, but ultimately if guns are so easily accessible, do they even matter? the US has over 300 million guns, just over 1 million of those are registered. The issue isn't legal weapons and the laws that go with them, it goes beyond that.

While there is a ton of guns in Norway, Austria, Finland, Sweden etc. a lot of these are used for hunting. 

The big difference between the US and Europe in regards to guns in my opinion is that their guns aren't (by large) intended to go hunting animals with. 

Whether it's a SW, Armalite or bolt action with thermal scope. You don't buy that shit to hunt moose or boars. 

I know this goes without saying, but thought I'd say it anyway. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara

[sne]

Active shooter at Pensacola naval air station (military base).

Guess you can't really stop the military from carrying guns...

[villakram]

3 hours ago, sne said:

Active shooter at Pensacola naval air station (military base).

Guess you can't really stop the military from carrying guns...

3 good guys/gals and a bad guy, right after a similar issue in Hawaii last week. Slow roll effects of 20yrs of war??