The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[sharkyvilla]

Tbh I don't really know how good a communicator he is, he seems to avoid the main politics programmes and news channels like a plague and when he does go on looks so curmudgeonly that there's barely any point.  He seems only happy to play in front of the already converted socialists and that is actually a very small proportion of the UK.  The centre ground is up for grabs again if the Tories go to the right based on this referendum.  There are still some serious candidates, they don't have to be a clown.  Dan Jarvis is the obvious candidate if he wants it this time.

[villakram]

ok... I'm rambling on here but this is simply astonishing

per Phil Wilson, the chair of the labor for in campaign https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-must-resign-inadequate-leader-betrayal

So, TTIP is an esoteric issue. Why the bloody do you think he was talking about it... and the neo-lib marches on.

He did not visit the Labour heartlands of the north-east and instead raised esoteric issues such as TTIP which had no resonance on the doorstep.

Edited June 26, 2016 by villakram

[blandy]

2 minutes ago, villakram said:

ok... I'm ramling on here but this is simply astonishing

per Phil Wilson, the chair of the labor for in campaign https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-must-resign-inadequate-leader-betrayal

So, TTIP is an esoteric issue. Why the bloody do you think he was talking about it... and the neo-lib marches on.

He did not visit the Labour heartlands of the north-east and instead raised esoteric issues such as TTIP which had no resonance on the doorstep.

TTIP is a massive argument against staying in. So in political terms, by raising it, he was in effect helping the other side. 

[V01]

I'd say the EU is more likely to block TTIP than a Tory government is.

[mjmooney]

I'm a Corbyn supporter, but I reluctantly concede that he's probably a dead man walking. My missus just said that the very thing she liked about him was the fact that he was quiet and uncharismatic. But what does the PLP want? A more charismatic leftwing firebrand? Or another smooth-talking pseudo Tory? I have my suspicions. 

[Davkaus]

4 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I'm a Corbyn supporter, but I reluctantly concede that he's probably a dead man walking. My missus just said that the very thing she liked about him was the fact that he was quiet and uncharismatic. But what does the PLP want? A more charismatic leftwing firebrand? Or another smooth-talking pseudo Tory? I have my suspicions. 

Someone that wins them an election and puts them "in power", at any cost.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Davkaus

[mjmooney]

2 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Someone that wins them an election and puts them "in power", at any cost.

Quite. But they think that means another Blair. I reckon that a proper leftwinger with the gift of the gab would do it. 

[Chindie]

Just now, mjmooney said:

Quite. But they think that means another Blair. I reckon that a proper leftwinger with the gift of the gab would do it. 

A faux left winger perhaps.

They need to win back significant amounts of the north and the poor and appeal to the middle classes. They can't do all of that as a left winger. It's arguable they can't do any of that as an overtly left wing party. Thursday showed us that the traditional left position of class dividing more than nationality is dead, the SNP popularity in Scotland is going nowhere, and the middle class are not going for more tax. A true left wing candidate will be popular in some circles but has no chance of election, whether they look and sound like Corbyn or a prime Blair. So they will push for a red Tory again which can play to the south, and superficially to traditional bases.

[OutByEaster?]

8 minutes ago, Chindie said:

A faux left winger perhaps.

They need to win back significant amounts of the north and the poor and appeal to the middle classes. They can't do all of that as a left winger. It's arguable they can't do any of that as an overtly left wing party. Thursday showed us that the traditional left position of class dividing more than nationality is dead, the SNP popularity in Scotland is going nowhere, and the middle class are not going for more tax. A true left wing candidate will be popular in some circles but has no chance of election, whether they look and sound like Corbyn or a prime Blair. So they will push for a red Tory again which can play to the south, and superficially to traditional bases.

I'd go the opposite way - Mooney's Left Wing firebrand could walk an election - what the referendum shows more than anything is that the British people are looking for a radical solution, if we have an election in the next year or so, my money would be on the least 'normal' candidate. it's strange that the labour party are so convinced that a 'normal' pretend-Tory candidate will win over a British public that just voted for a proposal pushed at them by Farage. If Corbyn looked and sounded like Tom Hiddleston he'd absolutely romp an election.

 

[Xela]

31 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'd go the opposite way - Mooney's Left Wing firebrand could walk an election - what the referendum shows more than anything is that the British people are looking for a radical solution, if we have an election in the next year or so, my money would be on the least 'normal' candidate. it's strange that the labour party are so convinced that a 'normal' pretend-Tory candidate will win over a British public that just voted for a proposal pushed at them by Farage. If Corbyn looked and sounded like Tom Hiddleston he'd absolutely romp an election.

 

I'm not sure. When has Britain ever voted for a left wing firebrand? Its a conservative country and Labour only gained power as Blair posed as a tory-lite

[Chindie]

36 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'd go the opposite way - Mooney's Left Wing firebrand could walk an election - what the referendum shows more than anything is that the British people are looking for a radical solution, if we have an election in the next year or so, my money would be on the least 'normal' candidate. it's strange that the labour party are so convinced that a 'normal' pretend-Tory candidate will win over a British public that just voted for a proposal pushed at them by Farage. If Corbyn looked and sounded like Tom Hiddleston he'd absolutely romp an election.

 

I don't think you tie in with many constituencies unfortunately. Traditionally left wing positions and ideas don't play to the man on the street. A traditionally left wing candidate loses an immigration debate, and loses an economic debate when everyone feels like they need to pinch pennies. Etc etc. IMO anyway.

[Risso]

David Miliband isn't that busy at the moment is he, and there's an uncontested by-election coming up.... 

[snowychap]

11 minutes ago, Risso said:

David Miliband isn't that busy at the moment is he, and there's an uncontested by-election coming up.... 

Might take a bit of the heat off Jack Straw.

But seriously, no.

Edited June 26, 2016 by snowychap

[Risso]

Chris Bryant goes, taking the total to resign to 11.  To lose one shadow cabinet member is unlucky, two is careless, etc...

[Chindie]

I kinda like that the Blairite elements of the Labour party have effectively purged themselves.

It's also amusing reading their resignation letters where they all simultaneously try to make out that they like Corbyn but don't think he's capable of leading them, and implying that they absolutely haven't been planning doing something like this from seconds after he was voted in, instead making or this is a recent decision with a heavy heart with various explanations.

If you placed a ball on any of them it'd fall off they're so far from straight.

[Chindie]

Never waste a good crisis.

[HanoiVillan]

4 hours ago, villakram said:

But some ideas cannot be explained correctly if put in the terms that a 9yr old would understand.

The issues that demand attention vis-a-vis the wealth distribution, the underfunded pension systems given demographic evolution, the advance of technology and the shrinking of the planet, climate change and sustainability are important and when explained in a simplistic easy to understand manner lead to hyperbole and all of the -isms. E.g., the recent referendum campaign.

Perhaps one should acknowledge their own limitations, be that in knowledge or perhaps even intelligence and then defer and/or rely on experts.

Such silly idealism, I know.

Indeed.

To go further, if political issues could be satisfactorily explained to 9 year olds, then there would be no good reason not to give 9 year olds the vote. 

[jon_c]

6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Indeed.

To go further, if political issues could be satisfactorily explained to 9 year olds, then there would be no good reason not to give 9 year olds the vote. 

I said 9 year old, as that was the original quote I was using to make the point. But I was aiming more about the standard of education of a voter. 

A politician needs to be able to make the average voter understand their policies or issues. It's why poor politicians campaign on race and immigration, because it's easy to portray. "You see that person different from you? It's their fault"

So no I don't expect a 9 year old to vote. But I don't expect us to set a test of education level that you have to pass before you can vote either.

[Demitri_C]

What the tories can do, labour can do better. Both parties in crisis

[MakemineVanilla]

2 hours ago, jon_c said:

I said 9 year old, as that was the original quote I was using to make the point. But I was aiming more about the standard of education of a voter. 

A politician needs to be able to make the average voter understand their policies or issues. It's why poor politicians campaign on race and immigration, because it's easy to portray. "You see that person different from you? It's their fault"

So no I don't expect a 9 year old to vote. But I don't expect us to set a test of education level that you have to pass before you can vote either.

But what if the person is different from you because of class?

Surely the whole Labour movement is based upon the conflict of interests between the classes?