The Tim Sherwood Thread

[sexbelowsound]

Anyway, If the 'moneyball' approach hadn't been so dramatically successful (even though they didn't actually win anything) nobody would have even heard about it. The ideas of Bill James who created the method were widely discredited in baseball for a long time. He now sits in the Boston Red Sox front office.

If there was something similar going on in football it'd be far more prevalent in the media. The only club I can think of that have done something reasonably similar is Midtjylland in Denmark and I doubt many have heard about it.

I'd actually suggest that nobody in football is using the approach anywhere near its intended method because it doesn't transfer over particularly well. 

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by sexbelowsound

[StefanAVFC]

Brentford's chairman is all about it but it isn't working too well.

[sexbelowsound]

Brentford's chairman is all about it but it isn't working too well.

Cheers, gonna have a little read about that.

[Zatman]

Brentford chairman owns Midjylland as well

[sne]

Think we'd be better off using the trusted Football Manager to scout for talent...

[useless]

When is Pep Guardiola leaving Bayern. Not soon enough for us I'd imagine, but still.

Sorry poor attempt at trying to change the subject, because I was sick of hearing about 'moneyball'.

Edited October 21, 2015 by useless

[StanBalaban]

Article written back in February is alarmingly on-point.

Pre-Villa article

The more we get to know him, the more I think that appearing at Villa park Lambert had been sacked is now appearing incredible crass, but totally within character.

Those who have not had to support a club he’s been in charge of have often mistaken Sherwood’s idiocy for honesty, in a similar fashion to how fans of Nigel Farage are often found describing his unique way of promoting bile. His am-dram level of theatrics in press conferences allowed him a platform to openly interview for every job available in football, and before long, his tenure at Tottenham became more about self-promotion than good management. Propelled by his overconfidence in his own ability and ignorance towards his own self image, Sherwood spoke of himself in Pep Guardiola-like glowing terms, when in reality being little more than an opportunistic charlatan.

.....

 

This is not a man that any football fan should want anywhere near their football club. Is he likely to win the odd football match and introduce a style of football that, much like a car crash, is watchable in a perverse way? Probably, yeah. But what you’ll also find is increased press access within the club, streams of information leaks and sourceless exclusives across the internet and a growing sense of disillusionment with your club the longer he stays in charge.

 

[foreveryoung]

Maybe after various meetings, the board have found Sherwood out, an are finding a way to cut him lose, without paying all his contract off.

It just feels to me, with all the media comments, the stuation with Sherwood is getting very sticky within the club, an as we all know its not as easy as just pressing the button.

[AshVilla]

Comparing Sherwood to Farage eh no wonder he didn't like all those foreign buys

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Brentford's chairman is all about it but it isn't working too well.

In what context is it not going too well? They've had a tough start to the season granted, but we're talking 11 games vs 4 years.

[useless]

Maybe someone should start a 'moneyball' thread.

[CrackpotForeigner]

Maybe someone should start a 'moneyball' thread.

Preferably on a baseball messageboard far away from VT.

[KHV]

Article written back in February is alarmingly on-point.

Pre-Villa article

The more we get to know him, the more I think that appearing at Villa park Lambert had been sacked is now appearing incredible crass, but totally within character.

Those who have not had to support a club he’s been in charge of have often mistaken Sherwood’s idiocy for honesty, in a similar fashion to how fans of Nigel Farage are often found describing his unique way of promoting bile. His am-dram level of theatrics in press conferences allowed him a platform to openly interview for every job available in football, and before long, his tenure at Tottenham became more about self-promotion than good management. Propelled by his overconfidence in his own ability and ignorance towards his own self image, Sherwood spoke of himself in Pep Guardiola-like glowing terms, when in reality being little more than an opportunistic charlatan.

.....

 

This is not a man that any football fan should want anywhere near their football club. Is he likely to win the odd football match and introduce a style of football that, much like a car crash, is watchable in a perverse way? Probably, yeah. But what you’ll also find is increased press access within the club, streams of information leaks and sourceless exclusives across the internet and a growing sense of disillusionment with your club the longer he stays in charge.

 

clicked on the artice and noticed it was written by Raj Bains so therefore didn't read it

[VillanousOne]

It feels like the failure comes from taking a set of talented but young foreign players unproven at Premiership level and trying to make them the back bone of the team.

You need a spine in place before you can make that sort of gamble, we lost ours and what was left was pretty crap.

No-one has led, no-one has stepped up from the existing set of players

Bacuna has been worse than last year, Guzan has been a car crash, then you've got Gabby and Westwood, oh dear. Clark was pretty unfairly dropped as I believe he has more voice and sway than Lescott does presently, obviously he is now injured. Sinclair isn't a leader and hasn't really showed up apart from the cup game. Hutton has probably been the only existing player with some minimal credit, while Richards maybe experienced he is still a player returning to the premiership who barely played in the last year he was their for City, leading a team of players he barely knows.

Maybe that is why Richardson was drafted back in, maybe that is why Nzogbia is being drafted back in?

I'm not going to pretend i wasn't excited by the signings this summer and like most i was only annoyed that we didn't sign a big name striker. But in hindsight maybe we did need to sign slightly lower rent but experienced players like Huddlestone, Lennon, Townsend etc. Not saying they would have been the answer but can't help feeling we needed to mix it up a bit.

[KHV]

Maybe someone should start a 'moneyball' thread.

Sounds like a good idea. I thought Brad Pitt was quite good in it

[KHV]

It feels like the failure comes from taking a set of talented but young foreign players unproven at Premiership level and trying to make them the back bone of the team.

You need a spine in place before you can make that sort of gamble, we lost ours and what was left was pretty crap.

No-one has led, no-one has stepped up from the existing set of players

Bacuna has been worse than last year, Guzan has been a car crash, then you've got Gabby and Westwood, oh dear. Clark was pretty unfairly dropped as I believe he has more voice and sway than Lescott does presently, obviously he is now injured. Sinclair isn't a leader and hasn't really showed up apart from the cup game. Hutton has probably been the only existing player with some minimal credit, while Richards maybe experienced he is still a player returning to the premiership who barely played in the last year he was their for City, leading a team of players he barely knows.

Maybe that is why Richardson was drafted back in, maybe that is why Nzogbia is being drafted back in?

I'm not going to pretend i wasn't excited by the signings this summer and like most i was only annoyed that we didn't sign a big name striker. But in hindsight maybe we did need to sign slightly lower rent but experienced players like Huddlestone, Lennon, Townsend etc. Not saying they would have been the answer but can't help feeling we needed to mix it up a bit.

I think your right, and I seriously doubt these signings were scouted extensively. I'm also not convinced Hendrik Almstadt is a sporting director either. He moved into player statistics at Arsenal because he showed a keen interest in data analysis after working in the commercial department. Arsenal didn't seem over keen to keep him on and Wenger has said they have only ever used player statistics for one signing which was Gabriel Paulista. I don't think Reilly is up to much either, one of the biggest criticisms at Liverpool has been the number of shit players they have signed which is where Reilly was before he came back to us and he unearthed some proper shit while he was here first time round

[Wainy316]

Moneyball. I just wanted to say it.

[CrackpotForeigner]

Moneyball. I just wanted to say it.

Shut your ******* face uncle-******. I just wanted to say it.

 

(er, )

Edited October 21, 2015 by CrackpotForeigner

[Dodgyknees]

Moneyball also = All Boney M.

Boney M sang 'Brown girl in the ring'

Could also mean DHUTWU

= Fox and co are screwing us.

[avfc1982am]

Jenas depicts TS as a bully who undermines others, and not somebody you want managing and building a young team. They need to get rid ASAP, project Sherwood has run its course.

So someone who is passionate, has a rant once in a while when things are bad and tells players the truth is now a bully? 

We are talking about a male dominated, performance related environment are we not? Not trying to be nasty or anything like that but have you spent much time in your life playing football then or in that type of environment? Whereby if your crap at your job or make stupid mistakes you get slated or have the piss taken out of you by your peers? Trying to now turn Sherwood into some sort of bully after a few comments, none of which depict him as a bully at all is just wrong!

I can understand people wanting rid of Sherwood based on results and certain decisions etc(as I do), but some of the nonsense being posted trying to assassinate his character whilst jumping on the bandwagon is just desperate and not required in this instance. Results will remove him from his job soon enough should things continue much longer.

If only Sherwood was a mumbling Scottish manager with no experience of managing a club the size of Villa he would get 2-3 years to turn shit around, even if crap.

 

 

Rightly or wrongly that is my honest interpretation of Jenas' article, which is evidently quite different from yours. Which is fine. My point was that Sherwood comes across as a confrontational bully rather than a competent (or even professional) football manager according to the experiences of Jermaine Jenas.

 

I am still trying to work out what the actual point Jenas is trying to make? It is hardly a ringing endorsement of Sherwood's managerial credentials. It does not even focus on Sherwood's coaching or tactical ability, other than Sherwood has a “simple view of the game”. I fail to see how being angry and confronting people helps Tim Sherwood find a solution to our problems. And neither does Jenas it seems, we are simply doomed whoever is in charge according to JJ– which is so defeatist and uncreative.

 

I do agree that passion and honesty is needed in this environment, and there is a need to confront people over a lack of effort or to check an ego. I am not naïve. But I have to ask where is the passion to defend the club and the players currently? Why did Tim not contest the referee's decision when Veretout was hacked down against Stoke? Where is the honesty in privately leaking information which absolves him of any responsibility? Judging from Jenas' recollections and these recent leaks, it seems his passion and energy are always directed to blaming others when things are not going well.

 

People want me to study Alex Ferguson. Well, I know for certain you would not see SAF slumped back in his chair looking disinterested; or witness his assistants hugging and joking with the opposition manager during a crucial game; and leaving poor refereeing decisions uncontested during and after a match. If you only have the energy to lay into those on your side, then this so called passion and truth will only weaken morale and work against you.

 

It is important to recognise TS is also dealing with young men who are settling into a new country and a highly competitive league. This confrontational and impulsive style will not work, and judging by poor results and performance it has not worked. Sherwood's managerial methods are totally flawed, and I cynically believe these leaks are only being deployed to mask Sherwood's faults and protect his image. It is safe to say TS has one eye on his next job.

 

Finally, I have no idea why you feel the need to reference Paul Lambert? Totally irrelevant and ruins a perfectly fine post. The Lambert era is over.

My apologies for the late(literally) response to your post but hey, sometimes life just takes over.

My original post was in response to you using the term 'Bully' based on comments made by someone that did not state that in any way.  You see what has happened here with yourself is that you have heard/seen a few comments regarding somebody's behaviour in possibly the heat of the moment, in a completely different environment and position to the one they currently occupy, and then built a picture of that persons character in order to justify your comments or the fact that he isn't capable of dealing with the players in a professional manner and therefore is a poor manager.

Also questioning the guy's passion because he isn't screaming at people or the ref over the Veretout incident or because he isn't like Fergie, what's that about? How do you know he didn't lay into the ref in the tunnel or after the game? Or have a quiet word with Wilkins in private after the game last Saturday?

You see the thing is here, in this situation, you have no idea how Tim Sherwood is behaving in his role as manager of Aston Villa with regards to his relationships with the players, his coaching methods or indeed his instructions in order to get them playing as a cohesive unit. Only those involved do and until someone comes out and says Sherwood is bully and doesn't have a clue then your own methods of interpretation as to his character are flawed. Unless you personally know him of course? let me just throw this in the mix. Jack Grealish the darling of the Villa, who was it he ran to and jumped on when he scored his first goal for his boyhood club?

Now you may be right in that Sherwood isn't good enough to manage the Villa which up to now I agree with as his decision making on formations, line up and subs have been strange, hence the results. But here's the thing, most people are coming out in the media are in defence of him, all ex players. If that is the case it appears he is pretty well liked by most and maybe not the confrontational bully you see him as. Sure he can talk out his arse at times but find a manager that doesn't. Fergie certainly did.

Now regarding the comments Lambert which are not pointing the finger may I add.... Well it appears there was a case related to bullying all under his watch yet he lasted 3 years, near on with certain people never questioning his managerial methods or character. Funny  that.