The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Stevo985]

Young player in "continually playing in more games before becoming a regular" shocker.

I would normally agree but last season we couldnt buy a goal for the 1st 6 months and manager consistently played Weimann and Gabby without giving Jack a start

He gave Jack a start. in the cup.

He was awful.

[omariqy]

So what's the excuse for picking all the other players that were also awful but for game after game rather then one game?

[Isa]

 

Sherwood didn't start him straight away either.

Jack got his chance when his performances demanded it. Sherwood gets credit for getting those performances out of him. But it wasn't a case that Lambert wasn't playing him.

What 'performances'? He made one substitute appearance under Sherwood before getting the start. 

[TRO]

I don't know if you can give him massive credit for it as surely anyone would have done the same, but Sherwood is responsible for giving Grealish his starting role. Maybe it was because he was ready, but then again he got to manage Benteke 'at the right time so was lucky' etc etc. I'm not a Sherwood fan but i'm not going to snatch away the small wins he has managed as manager.

that is the danger at present......he has done some weird things I.e. Leicester.....but some of the stuff the derogatory stuff is a figment of some fans imagination. I can only think, that it is manifested from a personal dislike for him and manufactured in to criticism of his work.

it seems, we have the ability to cut slack for a developing player, but not for a developing manager.

we have instances where the previous manager mumbled his way through interviews like a shrinking violet and that was criticised......now we gave one who is cocky and forthright and that too is criticised.

i think managers need far more time with certain elements of their job, some elements take longer than others....but to get the all singing all dancing manager it takes a lot longer than some of us are expecting.

we cannot survive on a constant serving of "manager bounce"

[VillaCas]

I don't know if you can give him massive credit for it as surely anyone would have done the same, but Sherwood is responsible for giving Grealish his starting role. Maybe it was because he was ready, but then again he got to manage Benteke 'at the right time so was lucky' etc etc. I'm not a Sherwood fan but i'm not going to snatch away the small wins he has managed as manager.

that is the danger at present......he has done some weird things I.e. Leicester.....but some of the stuff the derogatory stuff is a figment of some fans imagination. I can only think, that it is manifested from a personal dislike for him and manufactured in to criticism of his work.

it seems, we have the ability to cut slack for a developing player, but not for a developing manager.

we have instances where the previous manager mumbled his way through interviews like a shrinking violet and that was criticised......now we gave one who is cocky and forthright and that too is criticised.

i think managers need far more time with certain elements of their job, some elements take longer than others....but to get the all singing all dancing manager it takes a lot longer than some of us are expecting.

we cannot survive on a constant serving of "manager bounce"

You continually come out with this management zen

Are you saying that you think Sherwood should stay or not?  If yes, and assuming we don't win anytime soon, when would enough be enough for you? Spurs? MC? Everton? Watford? Xmas? Next Season

You were at this yesterday with your "there is a much more intelligent solution" which when challenged you admitted that you didn't know what that would look like

Are you backing Sherwood or do you want him out??

[TRO]

Players develop over a period of time and it can be fortuitous if the player comes good on your watch.

it is easy to tag the manager as the developer, when several managers have had an Input.

Dwight Yorke never featured much under Ron Atkinson, but featured well under Brian little, my point is it may be the player himself just "arrived"in terms of his development....no disrespect to Brian little or mitigation to Ron Atkinson.

i think it is sometimes convenient to praise or criticise managers just to suit our overall view of that person, even though at close quarters we know little about them.

[VillaCas]

Players develop over a period of time and it can be fortuitous if the player comes good on your watch.

it is easy to tag the manager as the developer, when several managers have had an Input.

Dwight Yorke never featured much under Ron Atkinson, but featured well under Brian little, my point is it may be the player himself just "arrived"in terms of his development....no disrespect to Brian little or mitigation to Ron Atkinson.

i think it is sometimes convenient to praise or criticise managers just to suit our overall view of that person, even though at close quarters we know little about them.

Flow with whatever may happen, and let your mind be free: Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the ultimate

Edited October 22, 2015 by VillaCas

[KHV]

 

Dwight Yorke never featured much under Ron Atkinson, but featured well under Brian little, my point is it may be the player himself just "arrived"in terms of his development....no disrespect to Brian little or mitigation to Ron Atkinson.

Im fairly certain Dwight played quite a few games under Ron.........

[VillaCas]

 

Dwight Yorke never featured much under Ron Atkinson, but featured well under Brian little, my point is it may be the player himself just "arrived"in terms of his development....no disrespect to Brian little or mitigation to Ron Atkinson.

Im fairly certain Dwight played quite a few games under Ron.........

He played at least 40 times under Atkinson

[KHV]

 

Dwight Yorke never featured much under Ron Atkinson, but featured well under Brian little, my point is it may be the player himself just "arrived"in terms of his development....no disrespect to Brian little or mitigation to Ron Atkinson.

Im fairly certain Dwight played quite a few games under Ron.........

He played at least 40 times under Atkinson

Thought he played a fair bit, mainly on the wing IIRC

[bobzy]

So what's the excuse for picking all the other players that were also awful but for game after game rather then one game?

I like Jack - he'll be a top talent - but what has he done so far that anyone else hasn't?  From the top of my head, I can remember one goal (Leicester, this season) and one assist (Liverpool, semi-final).  He's had some decent performances and some crap ones.  He's basically been in exactly the same boat as "other players".

I think he'll go on to be a lot better than most of what we currently have, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with protecting a young lad in the early stages of his career.  Lambert (FWIW) managed it pretty perfectly.  Sherwood thrust him in immediately and bigged him up (fair play Timmy) and we get media coverage over the summer and a more drained, less sharp Grealish so far this season.

Playing every minute of every game isn't necessarily for the best when you're a 19 year old kid.

Edited October 22, 2015 by bobzy

[Stevo985]

So what's the excuse for picking all the other players that were also awful but for game after game rather then one game?

I have no idea. Completely different point though isn't it?

[Bunnski]

Grealish has been shit in most games this season so I don't see why the arguing is happening over who gave him his first chance in the first team. To my eye he isn't ready to be starting games until he learns that on a bad when nothing is going well for him, the very least he has to be doing is working his socks off for the team and contributing defensively. If anything it reflects badly on Sherwood that he is putting so much faith into Grealish when he should have a more finished article in place that could take the pressure of Grealish and allow him get upto speed with what's required of him and when he is ready then he could be starting every game.

[TRO]

 

[Isa]

 

I think he'll go on to be a lot better than most of what we currently have, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with protecting a young lad in the early stages of his career.  Lambert (FWIW) managed it pretty perfectly.  Sherwood thrust him in immediately and bigged him up (fair play Timmy) and we get media coverage over the summer and a more drained, less sharp Grealish so far this season.

That's probably more to do with him missing the entire preseason through injury, I suspect.

[TRO]

 

Dwight Yorke never featured much under Ron Atkinson, but featured well under Brian little, my point is it may be the player himself just "arrived"in terms of his development....no disrespect to Brian little or mitigation to Ron Atkinson.

Im fairly certain Dwight played quite a few games under Ron.........

He played at least 40 times under Atkinson

                 But he wasn't a regular starter, just hit and miss

[romavillan]

Yorke was just a kid and everyone was trying to work out his best position, including him, midfield, winger, up front, support striker, he must have played all of them by the time Little came in to the job. 

[TRO]

So what's the excuse for picking all the other players that were also awful but for game after game rather then one game?

I like Jack - he'll be a top talent - but what has he done so far that anyone else hasn't?  From the top of my head, I can remember one goal (Leicester, this season) and one assist (Liverpool, semi-final).  He's had some decent performances and some crap ones.  He's basically been in exactly the same boat as "other players".

I think he'll go on to be a lot better than most of what we currently have, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with protecting a young lad in the early stages of his career.  Lambert (FWIW) managed it pretty perfectly.  Sherwood thrust him in immediately and bigged him up (fair play Timmy) and we get media coverage over the summer and a more drained, less sharp Grealish so far this season.

Playing every minute of every game isn't necessarily for the best when you're a 19 year old kid.

 

                  Andy Gray.....Brian little.....Gary Shaw......Gareth Barry.......Trevor Francis......Wayne Rooney

                   Alan shearer...........

                   If you are good enough, you are old enough.

 

                  

[sexbelowsound]

So what's the excuse for picking all the other players that were also awful but for game after game rather then one game?

I like Jack - he'll be a top talent - but what has he done so far that anyone else hasn't?  From the top of my head, I can remember one goal (Leicester, this season) and one assist (Liverpool, semi-final).  He's had some decent performances and some crap ones.  He's basically been in exactly the same boat as "other players".

I think he'll go on to be a lot better than most of what we currently have, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with protecting a young lad in the early stages of his career.  Lambert (FWIW) managed it pretty perfectly.  Sherwood thrust him in immediately and bigged him up (fair play Timmy) and we get media coverage over the summer and a more drained, less sharp Grealish so far this season.

Playing every minute of every game isn't necessarily for the best when you're a 19 year old kid.

 

                  Andy Gray.....Brian little.....Gary Shaw......Gareth Barry.......Trevor Francis......Wayne Rooney

                   Alan shearer...........

                   If you are good enough, you are old enough.

 

                  

That statement refers to the quality of a player.

Jack is still developing. Yes he is young but he really shouldn't be playing every game at his age, not down to lack of ability, but to preserve him physically and most importantly mentally.

[HanoiVillan]

To be competitive in this league. To survive even. The vast majority of those players have so far shown that they're not up to it.

West Brom are currently outside the relegation zone are very likely to survive this season. Their team in the last game, which they won, was Myhill / Dawson / McAuley / Evans / Brunt / Sessegnon / Fletcher / Yacob / McClean / Rondon / Berahino. 

I don't honestly believe our players are far worse, or that it's absolutely impossible to manage Villa into some better results. 

it depends what is specifically meant by our players are not worse......technically, I think we are better....but the Albion players are far more premier league savvy.....it takes time and much work on the training ground to improve that.....we have had too many players who are not only young and still learning their trade, but new to a league too.....one or two will blend in, we have too many all at once.

we play some good football at times, but the TEAM is too light in its approach, we are like a pretty flower Been broken  in the wind.....we are not durable enough and not mentally strong.

That's kind of the point though. 'Savvy' isn't something that you just have or don't have, it gets taught and it accrues over time. If we observe that the players haven't had very much time to develop 'Premier League savvy', then really we're saying that the quality of the instruction they're getting is that much more important. 

Does Sherwood seem 'savvy' to you? It's not an adjective I would use to describe him.