The Tim Sherwood Thread

[villa4europe]

Is Gabby is the only other constant along with Lerner.

Won't this be his 3rd manager bust up now?

There is definitely a trouble maker/gossip spreader in the team.  Someone is leaking the line-ups and training ground info.

 

 

or as a villa fan someone who is every bit as bothered about our predicament as we are?

im sure id have had a chat with sherwood by now too

[villa4europe]

I don't think people really know what "Moneyball" is. It has nothing to do with having a transfer team.

I could be wrong, but isnt the equivilant of it in football most likely be FatSam/Pulis? A very ugly/unappealing high stat plays which reduces other teams from being able to exploit them? I dont really know what it means, interested though

its a scouting system, they scour statistics to find high ratings

an example of us using "moneyball" for example would be our scouting team putting "interceptions" in to the opta database, it flags up amavi who im sure he had more interceptions than any other player in europe last season, where the argument falls down is the belief that we signed him because of that reason or that it enable us to buy these players cheaply, all it does is potentially flag up gems, im sure we then go and scout them thoroughly afterwards

we need a striker, we struggle to create chances, get on the opta database and look who has the highest strike conversion rates in europe and start from there... its not a completely foreign concept, im sure football clubs have been doing something similar for a long time, its the assembling a team based on different attributes that cant and i doubt will be done

Edited October 21, 2015 by villa4europe

[gharperr]

im sure football clubs have been doing something similar for a long time, its the assembling a team based on different attributes that cant i doubt will be done

yeh it seems like most teams do what you just said nowadays. thanks for the explanation

Edited October 21, 2015 by gharperr

[TRO]

.....it may have the desired effect, but is it right and is there a much more intelligent solution.

what would a "much more intelligent solution" look like exactly?

                   it was a question, not an answer......I have commented many times, i don't know the answer, just questioning the rationale behind changing managers every 5 minutes.

We aren't changing managers every 5 minutes though, are we? Lambert had just under 3 years before Sherwood. Although Sherwood has only had coming up to 9 months, he is averaging less than a point a game in his time here, so if he doesn't improve soon we are going down, unless of course we bring a better manager in.

                         But the writing was on the wall for Lambert way before he went, he was a dead man walking for how long?....perhaps I should say " we are talking about changing managers every 5 minutes".....but hey, you know what i mean, even if you don't agree......Sunderland is just the same, its embarrassing.

[Zatman]

I see madman Marcelo Bielsa is still free, maybe we could put him in charge if we get rid of Tim, also Jorge Sampaoli is looking to manage in Europe. These are managers we need to be chasing, show ambition

[TRO]

I don't think people really know what "Moneyball" is. It has nothing to do with having a transfer team.

I could be wrong, but isnt the equivilant of it in football most likely be FatSam/Pulis? A very ugly/unappealing high stat plays which reduces other teams from being able to exploit them? I dont really know what it means, interested though

its a scouting system, they scour statistics to find high ratings

an example of us using "moneyball" for example would be our scouting team putting "interceptions" in to the opta database, it flags up amavi who im sure he had more interceptions than any other player in europe last season, where the argument falls down is the belief that we signed him because of that reason or that it enable us to buy these players cheaply, all it does is potentially flag up gems, im sure we then go and scout them thoroughly afterwards

we need a striker, we struggle to create chances, get on the opta database and look who has the highest strike conversion rates in europe and start from there... its not a completely foreign concept, im sure football clubs have been doing something similar for a long time, its the assembling a team based on different attributes that cant and i doubt will be done

 

                     Trouble with Stats is :

                      You end up signing Whittingham instead of Walsh and you end up signing Cascarino instead of Sheringham

                       we've been good at it over the years.

[sexbelowsound]

I don't think people really know what "Moneyball" is. It has nothing to do with having a transfer team.

I've echoed this a few times myself but people don't listen to me. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I don't think people really know what "Moneyball" is. It has nothing to do with having a transfer team.

Mentioned this yesterday - I think it's more the Front Office set up that american football and baseball teams have always used, where a coach is given a squad and is expected to coach them to victory.  It seems to get called the 'moneyball approach'.

Its one of the most abused terms in sports journalism/comment at the moment and is only ever used as a pejorative term. 

Which is ridiculous considering Moneyball, actual Moneyball rather than the bastardised version, was astonishingly successful.

Thanks to others for explaining the term correctly.

[KHV]

Is Gabby is the only other constant along with Lerner.

Won't this be his 3rd manager bust up now?

There is definitely a trouble maker/gossip spreader in the team.  Someone is leaking the line-ups and training ground info.

 

 

alleged bust ups.........

[KHV]

I don't think people really know what "Moneyball" is. It has nothing to do with having a transfer team.

I could be wrong, but isnt the equivilant of it in football most likely be FatSam/Pulis? A very ugly/unappealing high stat plays which reduces other teams from being able to exploit them? I dont really know what it means, interested though

its a scouting system, they scour statistics to find high ratings

an example of us using "moneyball" for example would be our scouting team putting "interceptions" in to the opta database, it flags up amavi who im sure he had more interceptions than any other player in europe last season, where the argument falls down is the belief that we signed him because of that reason or that it enable us to buy these players cheaply, all it does is potentially flag up gems, im sure we then go and scout them thoroughly afterwards

we need a striker, we struggle to create chances, get on the opta database and look who has the highest strike conversion rates in europe and start from there... its not a completely foreign concept, im sure football clubs have been doing something similar for a long time, its the assembling a team based on different attributes that cant and i doubt will be done

sounds like playing football manager...........

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I don't think people really know what "Moneyball" is. It has nothing to do with having a transfer team.

I could be wrong, but isnt the equivilant of it in football most likely be FatSam/Pulis? A very ugly/unappealing high stat plays which reduces other teams from being able to exploit them? I dont really know what it means, interested though

its a scouting system, they scour statistics to find high ratings

an example of us using "moneyball" for example would be our scouting team putting "interceptions" in to the opta database, it flags up amavi who im sure he had more interceptions than any other player in europe last season, where the argument falls down is the belief that we signed him because of that reason or that it enable us to buy these players cheaply, all it does is potentially flag up gems, im sure we then go and scout them thoroughly afterwards

we need a striker, we struggle to create chances, get on the opta database and look who has the highest strike conversion rates in europe and start from there... its not a completely foreign concept, im sure football clubs have been doing something similar for a long time, its the assembling a team based on different attributes that cant and i doubt will be done

 

                     Trouble with Stats is :

                      You end up signing Whittingham instead of Walsh and you end up signing Cascarino instead of Sheringham

                       we've been good at it over the years.

What stats did we utilise on those occasions?

[El-Reacho]

I don't think people really know what "Moneyball" is. It has nothing to do with having a transfer team.

 

I could be wrong, but isnt the equivilant of it in football most likely be FatSam/Pulis? A very ugly/unappealing high stat plays which reduces other teams from being able to exploit them? I dont really know what it means, interested though

 

its a scouting system, they scour statistics to find high ratings

an example of us using "moneyball" for example would be our scouting team putting "interceptions" in to the opta database, it flags up amavi who im sure he had more interceptions than any other player in europe last season, where the argument falls down is the belief that we signed him because of that reason or that it enable us to buy these players cheaply, all it does is potentially flag up gems, im sure we then go and scout them thoroughly afterwards

we need a striker, we struggle to create chances, get on the opta database and look who has the highest strike conversion rates in europe and start from there... its not a completely foreign concept, im sure football clubs have been doing something similar for a long time, its the assembling a team based on different attributes that cant and i doubt will be done

 

 

                     Trouble with Stats is :

                      You end up signing Whittingham instead of Walsh and you end up signing Cascarino instead of Sheringham

                       we've been good at it over the years.

 

 

What stats did we utilise on those occasions?

Can imagine putting Cascarino into the stats machine:

[TRO]

.....it may have the desired effect, but is it right and is there a much more intelligent solution.

what would a "much more intelligent solution" look like exactly?

                   it was a question, not an answer......I have commented many times, i don't know the answer, just questioning the rationale behind changing managers every 5 minutes.

We aren't changing managers every 5 minutes though, are we? Lambert had just under 3 years before Sherwood. Although Sherwood has only had coming up to 9 months, he is averaging less than a point a game in his time here, so if he doesn't improve soon we are going down, unless of course we bring a better manager in.

We only change managers, because we are so crap at getting the right one in. Last season Moyes and Pullis were available - we missed em - this season  wever already missed big sam.

Houllier, Mcleish, Sherwood - all looked very risky appointments even when they were made - Lambert looked slightly better but in the end couldn't cut it. IMO 3 ot the last 4 managers were doomed before they started. 

 

                    too true......so is there any point in changing them, other than what else can we do?...... yea keeps the natives quiet for a few months.

[El Zen]

If it's true that we have adopted a moneyball type strategy to player transfers then I wonder is it the case that we appointed Sherwood with the same method, he had the best win ratio of any spurs manager and on paper would of looked good but obviously there is so much more to be considered when hiring a manager.

The sample was way too small to be drawing any lasting conclusions from Tim's win ratio.

His loss ratio would have been taken into account too.

(something I pointed out at the time)

And, more importantly, win % would be regarded as a completely and utterly useless metric. The clue is to use advanced statistics, whereas wins and losses can in theory have nothing to with the analyzed individual and is the most superficial of sports stats. Like I said earlier, it is actually the opposite of moneyball. 

Edited October 21, 2015 by Michelsen

[TRO]

I don't think people really know what "Moneyball" is. It has nothing to do with having a transfer team.

 

I could be wrong, but isnt the equivilant of it in football most likely be FatSam/Pulis? A very ugly/unappealing high stat plays which reduces other teams from being able to exploit them? I dont really know what it means, interested though

 

its a scouting system, they scour statistics to find high ratings

an example of us using "moneyball" for example would be our scouting team putting "interceptions" in to the opta database, it flags up amavi who im sure he had more interceptions than any other player in europe last season, where the argument falls down is the belief that we signed him because of that reason or that it enable us to buy these players cheaply, all it does is potentially flag up gems, im sure we then go and scout them thoroughly afterwards

we need a striker, we struggle to create chances, get on the opta database and look who has the highest strike conversion rates in europe and start from there... its not a completely foreign concept, im sure football clubs have been doing something similar for a long time, its the assembling a team based on different attributes that cant and i doubt will be done

 

 

                     Trouble with Stats is :

                      You end up signing Whittingham instead of Walsh and you end up signing Cascarino instead of Sheringham

                       we've been good at it over the years.

 

 

What stats did we utilise on those occasions?

                                             goals scored.

[sexbelowsound]

If people really want to understand about the moneyball approach then read up on Sabermetrics. 

[El-Reacho]

.....it may have the desired effect, but is it right and is there a much more intelligent solution.

what would a "much more intelligent solution" look like exactly?

                   it was a question, not an answer......I have commented many times, i don't know the answer, just questioning the rationale behind changing managers every 5 minutes.

We aren't changing managers every 5 minutes though, are we? Lambert had just under 3 years before Sherwood. Although Sherwood has only had coming up to 9 months, he is averaging less than a point a game in his time here, so if he doesn't improve soon we are going down, unless of course we bring a better manager in.

We only change managers, because we are so crap at getting the right one in. Last season Moyes and Pullis were available - we missed em - this season  wever already missed big sam.

Houllier, Mcleish, Sherwood - all looked very risky appointments even when they were made - Lambert looked slightly better but in the end couldn't cut it. IMO 3 ot the last 4 managers were doomed before they started. 

 

                    too true......so is there any point in changing them, other than what else can we do?...... yea keeps the natives quiet for a few months.

Sunderland's very existence has pretty much been down to 'new manager bounce' for like the past six years - there is some merit to it.

[Chicken Field]

I disagree with people saying the manager needs to buy his own players, successful clubs have moved away from that. The club is trying to become bigger than any manager and not dependent on them. If the managers are allowed to buy who ever they please, then when he is fired/leaves the next manager will want to get rid of all the previous managers players. It's an evil circle. 

Have a committee (manager of course will be part of the committee) let them buy players that fit the Aston Villa way of football(what ever way that is). Managers have to adapt to Villa, not Villa to managers.  

[KHV]

I don't think people really know what "Moneyball" is. It has nothing to do with having a transfer team.

I could be wrong, but isnt the equivilant of it in football most likely be FatSam/Pulis? A very ugly/unappealing high stat plays which reduces other teams from being able to exploit them? I dont really know what it means, interested though

 im sure we then go and scout them thoroughly afterwards

 

it's aston villa your on about, I wouldnt be so sure

[dn1982]

This moneyball crap is just that. Crap. Any given transfer policy will use a variety of ways of judging a player. You're telling me Traore stats are that good we had to buy him? He looks a very exciting player who in time could be great. I think I the press it's basically means buying young players then selling once developed but we haven't even gone down that route! Out of the 13 signings only 2 are u21 the others have been around a bit and are full internationals or over 28. Players like Gana and Ayew may get a lot better and be wanted by top clubs but we weren't tagged with this moneyball crap when buying Benteke and Delph! I think we had a very balanced summer transfer wise which is exactly what you want now Sherwood should stop moaning and get on with getting them to play to their potential.