The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Vive_La_Villa]

We will learn from it. 

 

We clearly aren't though.

can we discuss that in the new year instead of after 5 games?

It isn't 5 games though. He's making the same mistakes he made last season.

the same mistake that kept a team in freefall in the league and to an FA Cup final?

[DCJonah]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

What do you want him to learn? How never to make the wrong decision? He's said it right there, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

Respectfully disagree.

There's a difference between making a decision to "have a go at something" and making that change.  Maybe he thought we were done at 2-0 and bringing Ayew on would give some much-needed confidence to the lad.

In reality, it should've been Veretout or Clark or Hutton or Richardson coming on ahead of Ayew.  Mind boggling.  Cost us.

It was the wrong decision but i'm not sure it's the only reason the game was lost. Sanchez and Westwood were pathetic and just collapsed and Guzan gifted them the winning goal. 

 

I'm 100% certain it was the reason the game was lost.  Even with Sanchez and Westwood being pathetic, having 11 men on the pitch would've helped.

Ayew did absolutely nothing (in fact, he gave Leicester the ball more often than do anything for Villa).  Gil had just given us a 2nd goal.

Ayew was awful but Gil had to come off. Veretout would have offered us more but I can't just ignore the awful performance of some of them on the pitch and Guzan being a complete **** up.

It simply wouldn't have gotten that far.

 

For **** sake, we're 2-0 up with 30 minutes to go.  Why on **** Earth are you replacing a midfielder (albeit an attacking one) with a **** ridiculously out of form forward.

 

IT MAKES NO SENSE.  AT ALL.  Irrespective of other people eventually doing things badly, I'm 100% sure it wouldn't have come to that if Ayew for Gil hadn't happened.

It meant that Sinclair could shift out to the right and offer a bit of protection and that we still had attacking players on so we didn't have to just sit back and soak up constant pressure. It was wrong, but to say it makes no sense at all seems wrong IMO. 

[bobzy]

 

It simply wouldn't have gotten that far.

 

For **** sake, we're 2-0 up with 30 minutes to go.  Why on **** Earth are you replacing a midfielder (albeit an attacking one) with a **** ridiculously out of form forward.

 

IT MAKES NO SENSE.  AT ALL.  Irrespective of other people eventually doing things badly, I'm 100% sure it wouldn't have come to that if Ayew for Gil hadn't happened.

It meant that Sinclair could shift out to the right and offer a bit of protection and that we still had attacking players on so we didn't have to just sit back and soak up constant pressure. It was wrong, but to say it makes no sense at all seems wrong IMO. 

Yeah, we'll disagree on this.

 

I like Sherwood, but this is his error more than any of the individual errors (Bacuna, Guzan, defence generally) today.  

[DCJonah]

I don't really disagree. I think it was the wrong decision and it was a bad decision, but I think some of the players really **** up. At the end of the day he's the manager though and he'll get the praise when we win and should take the responsibility when it goes wrong. 

[TRO]

Anyone would think he's playing keepers upfront and playing formations that have never been used before. He made a decision that ended up being the wrong one. 

Was anyone questioning if he'll learn when he decided to throw Grealish in a big game? When Gestede came on to score the winner? When Traore came on to get us back in the game at palace? 

There will be times when his decisions work and times when they don't. He's never going to get it right all the time. Especially with a brand new team.

 

 

2-0 up in an away game with Carles Gil having just scored.

You take him off and replace him with a] a forward and b] a forward who is shockingly out of form and out of touch with the Premier League.

That isn't a "decision that didn't work", it's a decision that is at best **** stupid.

I have no problem giving Tim Sherwood time as manager.  I didn't want him appointed in the first place but he has been an absolute breath of fresh air around Villa Park.  Others have criticised him for decisions in the past and blamed him for costing us the game.  I've disagreed - the players, essentially, bear the brunt of this.

Today?  Entirely down to Tim.  That Gil substitution absolutely cost us.  I have no idea what he was thinking.

Gil had to come off. I guess the thinking was we were under pressure and bringing on another attacking player meant that we wouldn't just sit back and let them come at us. It didn't work of course but I don't think it was **** stupid.

 

..........................it didn't work, because the players coming on made no effect on the game......theirs did.

Edited September 13, 2015 by TRO

[Villarocker]

I've liked what he's tried to do so far but he cost us that game today - absolutely no denying. Gil scores a wonder goal and then he's subbed. He replaces Gabby - people will say rightfully but he set up our second and his a threat on the break - with Gestede. Did either of the replacements touch the ball? They're shocking substitutions and I'm sure an unfit Gil would have been better than a fully fit Ayew. 

We were under pressure before our second but left wide open after the subs. Also, after Bacuna nearly gave away a penalty, and was being torn apart, why not bring on Hutton? 

Bad day today Tim. Stop blaming others and stand up and be counted. 

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

Even if he had brought on say Hutton for Bacuna at 60 odd mins, and Veretout for Gil and we'd still lost 3-2 at least his thinking is clear and he's watching the same game as us. (Ayew looked, and has looked out of his depth since joining. Really cant believe how much we threw at Lorient for this guy)

Gabby is strong and quick and and can sometimes do a decent job of holding up the ball, Gestede is big and should be able to do that job too, so that sub was understandable. Just didnt work out, I actually thought Gabby did alright today and should have stayed on, was a decent outlet on occasions and did well for the Gil's goal.

 

[TRO]

......as some posters have already said, If we had of been 0-2 down with half an hour to go, we would have come back like they did.

That for me is the burning question that will begin to unravel what our problem really is.

[Hanky]

Problem we have is we have too many players who surrender the ball far too easily. Both full backs and two central midfielders are clear examples of that today. Was happening all game, even in the first half, but Leicester upped it in the second. Absolutely criminal performance in the second half, genuinely disgusted with the whole team and the management.

[AntrimBlack]

Today's defeat was down to Sherwood, no doubt in my mind about that. At 2.0 up, away from home, why bring on Ayew, who has so far given no indication that he can have any influence on a game, in stead of Veretout. And Hutton should have replaced Bacuna much earlier, it was obvious Bacuna was completely out of his depth. The team needed changes in that second half from quite early on, to stiffen them up, and that is for the manager to provide, and I am afraid he did nothing untill too late, and even then what he did was wrong.

He has had plenty of praise from me for what he has done since he joined us, and he has to be criticised when I think he deserves it.

[bobzy]

It's gutting to be talking about all the mistakes today after we've seen two fantastic goals and a superb first half display.

When oh when will Villa stop conceding late goals?

[AntrimBlack]

It's gutting to be talking about all the mistakes today after we've seen two fantastic goals and a superb first half display.

When oh when will Villa stop conceding late goals?

Yes, it is a shame for the two guys, scoring great goals which in the end bring us no points. I feel for them.

[The_Rev]

I find myself increasingly annoyed by Sherwood's post game sulks.  The interview he gave to the BBC after the game just struck me as him looking like a guy I'd have no confidence in in a crisis. He seemed dumbstruck, he just didn't know what to day. If a squad are looking to someone for leadership then should it be a guy who sits there with his head in his hands in despair?

[PompeyVillan]

What I find problematic is the unchallenged assumption that substitutions were the only factor in our capitulation today.

Of course, personal may have been a factor. Ayew in particular was gash, and Gestede does little to reassure me that he's good enough far this league. They as individuals must take some responsibility for that.

Player fitness also worries me. Leicester looked fitter than we did. They also had the mental capacity to fight for the win, we got caught out and then folded as we have done for far too long. Richards was the only player who looked physically up to it. Who does you blame for that? Perhaps the players got complacent and didn't try as Leicester? Perhaps their conditioning isn't right.

In particular Sanchez looked shot, Grealish and Sinclair struggled to impact the game and Ayew gave the ball away every time he touched it. Watching Sanchez jog around was unforgivable, as was Ayews complete lack of any sort ability.

Mentally we are still lacking. We panicked, partially because they pressed us hard. Our confidence is still very brittle, we stopped doing the good things soon after the scored their first. This led to individual errors, Bacuna brain farting, Amavi's impetuousness, Guzan flying out on goal.

For me the biggest factor was the lack of ball retention. It invites pressure and mistakes. We missed Gana's energy today in that regard.

This game brings up questions about several of our players, their ability and fitness and decision making. I'd question the subs too, perhaps Veretout for Gil, and keep Agbonlahor on? Ifs and buts. Either way, it's wrong to solely places the blame on Sherwood today.

[HanoiVillan]

I hadn't realised, before looking it up for another thread, that Sanchez played 90 mins for Colombia in New Jersey four days ago. In general, he seems to fall away at the end of games and his stamina is a concern - it might have been worth considering that before we stuck with him for the whole game. 

[bobzy]

Solely?  Of course, the players could have won.

The manager made the decision to change it at 2-0 though.  You can dress it up anyway you like - he made that choice.  That choice was wrong.

[Villanun]

Gotta agree with The Rev - Sherwood look shellshocked in the interview. Bit off a difference from the smiling wide-boy we're used to; might be realising that the job isn't as straightforward as he thought it was.

[villakram]

Really really worrying performance from Tim. In a very small number of games he now has 2 (QPR last season was a mess also), where he did nothing to affect the game in our favor and appeared like a deer in the headlights. 

It's no good coming out afterwards all "I'm embarrassed..." etc., as this is going to get old really quick.

[Dodgyknees]

Moving on from today and hoping Sherwood has learnt a valuable lesson and we grow from it.

UTV.

[AshVilla]

Is it beyond Sherwood's abilities to make tactical changes during a match when other teams make them

Two games in a row we have lost vital points because of this

Looking at the fixtures ahead now 3 points against baggies is a MUST

Liverpool (A) Stoke (H) Chelsea (A) Swansea (H) Spurs (A) Man City (H) Everton (A)

We look like we have picked up where we left off at the tail end of last season defensively anyway

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2015 by AshVilla