The Tim Sherwood Thread

[StefanAVFC]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

[bobzy]

Anyone would think he's playing keepers upfront and playing formations that have never been used before. He made a decision that ended up being the wrong one. 

Was anyone questioning if he'll learn when he decided to throw Grealish in a big game? When Gestede came on to score the winner? When Traore came on to get us back in the game at palace? 

There will be times when his decisions work and times when they don't. He's never going to get it right all the time. Especially with a brand new team.

 

2-0 up in an away game with Carles Gil having just scored.

You take him off and replace him with a] a forward and b] a forward who is shockingly out of form and out of touch with the Premier League.

That isn't a "decision that didn't work", it's a decision that is at best **** stupid.

I have no problem giving Tim Sherwood time as manager.  I didn't want him appointed in the first place but he has been an absolute breath of fresh air around Villa Park.  Others have criticised him for decisions in the past and blamed him for costing us the game.  I've disagreed - the players, essentially, bear the brunt of this.

Today?  Entirely down to Tim.  That Gil substitution absolutely cost us.  I have no idea what he was thinking.

[DCJonah]

Anyone would think he's playing keepers upfront and playing formations that have never been used before. He made a decision that ended up being the wrong one. 

Was anyone questioning if he'll learn when he decided to throw Grealish in a big game? When Gestede came on to score the winner? When Traore came on to get us back in the game at palace? 

There will be times when his decisions work and times when they don't. He's never going to get it right all the time. Especially with a brand new team.

 

No, they were praising him then, and are criticising him now. Is only praise allowed?

yes that's what I've said. Well done. 

I'm probably misreading you then, I thought you were wondering why people didn't question moments of good judgement like they did todays bad judgement. I'm tired and confused.

I've got no issue with people questioning bad judgement and decisions made. I just find this whole notion of 'he needs to learn' a bit daft. He's always going to make wrong decisions at some point because he's human, he's not going to learn how to make the right decision every single time. 

I think people are being far too OTT regarding how much his decisions have cost us.  Away to Bourmouth was a good 3 points, thanks to a substitution he made, the united game was a decent performance, the palace game saw Traore come on to get us back into the game and we were on the verge of a decent away point until Amavi **** up. We won our cup game and dominated Sunderland, in a game we should have won. Today saw some poor subs but Guzan's terrible error has played a massive part in coming away with no points also. 

His decision making has got us playing better football than under Lambert and has seen us take the game to teams who have to make adjustments in order to live with us. Today he wasn't able to match the adjustments they made, other days he will be. 

[andym]

i dont think he is clueless, i think he has generally shown that when he has time to game plan he can set us up to play good football.

his biggest weakness is obviously adapting in game, but unfortunately for us i think thats something that comes with experience and games under the belt. I do think though today is really the first time this season his in game decision making (or lack of) has been the main thing costing us.  

Against Sunderland, yes Advocaat made 2 subs at half time, but all that resulted was 5 or 10 minutes where they actually managed to get in our half a few times, and only managed to score due to some poor individual play from our players. We then dominated the rest of the game. Thats not been tactically out thought - and if it is every manager in the league is guilty of it. Sunderland had a very short period where they pressured us, but no more than what you would expect in any premier league game.

Against palace they probably had the better of the play 2nd half, but i didnt think we were completely dominated due to their changes and we would have had a well earned point if not for some brainless play on the pitch.

Today leicesters changes did alter the game, we were dominated for pretty much the entire 2nd half, and Tim did nothing to help the situation. That is the situation where his assisstants, including the experienced Ray Wilkins need to step and help Tim out. And if they did try and Tim ignored them, then he needs to swallow his pride and learn to take advice.

[Dodgyknees]

Anyone would think he's playing keepers upfront and playing formations that have never been used before. He made a decision that ended up being the wrong one. 

Was anyone questioning if he'll learn when he decided to throw Grealish in a big game? When Gestede came on to score the winner? When Traore came on to get us back in the game at palace? 

There will be times when his decisions work and times when they don't. He's never going to get it right all the time. Especially with a brand new team.

 

No, they were praising him then, and are criticising him now. Is only praise allowed?

yes that's what I've said. Well done. 

I'm probably misreading you then, I thought you were wondering why people didn't question moments of good judgement like they did todays bad judgement. I'm tired and confused.

I've got no issue with people questioning bad judgement and decisions made. I just find this whole notion of 'he needs to learn' a bit daft. He's always going to make wrong decisions at some point because he's human, he's not going to learn how to make the right decision every single time. 

I think people are being far too OTT regarding how much his decisions have cost us.  Away to Bourmouth was a good 3 points, thanks to a substitution he made, the united game was a decent performance, the palace game saw Traore come on to get us back into the game and we were on the verge of a decent away point until Amavi **** up. We won our cup game and dominated Sunderland, in a game we should have won. Today saw some poor subs but Guzan's terrible error has played a massive part in coming away with no points also. 

His decision making has got us playing better football than under Lambert and has seen us take the game to teams who have to make adjustments in order to live with us. Today he wasn't able to match the adjustments they made, other days he will be. 

Fair enough, I just see things a little differently.

[DCJonah]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

What do you want him to learn? How never to make the wrong decision? He's said it right there, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

[DCJonah]

Anyone would think he's playing keepers upfront and playing formations that have never been used before. He made a decision that ended up being the wrong one. 

Was anyone questioning if he'll learn when he decided to throw Grealish in a big game? When Gestede came on to score the winner? When Traore came on to get us back in the game at palace? 

There will be times when his decisions work and times when they don't. He's never going to get it right all the time. Especially with a brand new team.

 

 

2-0 up in an away game with Carles Gil having just scored.

You take him off and replace him with a] a forward and b] a forward who is shockingly out of form and out of touch with the Premier League.

That isn't a "decision that didn't work", it's a decision that is at best **** stupid.

I have no problem giving Tim Sherwood time as manager.  I didn't want him appointed in the first place but he has been an absolute breath of fresh air around Villa Park.  Others have criticised him for decisions in the past and blamed him for costing us the game.  I've disagreed - the players, essentially, bear the brunt of this.

Today?  Entirely down to Tim.  That Gil substitution absolutely cost us.  I have no idea what he was thinking.

Gil had to come off. I guess the thinking was we were under pressure and bringing on another attacking player meant that we wouldn't just sit back and let them come at us. It didn't work of course but I don't think it was **** stupid.

[bobzy]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

What do you want him to learn? How never to make the wrong decision? He's said it right there, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

Respectfully disagree.

There's a difference between making a decision to "have a go at something" and making that change.  Maybe he thought we were done at 2-0 and bringing Ayew on would give some much-needed confidence to the lad.

In reality, it should've been Veretout or Clark or Hutton or Richardson coming on ahead of Ayew.  Mind boggling.  Cost us.

[DCJonah]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

What do you want him to learn? How never to make the wrong decision? He's said it right there, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

Respectfully disagree.

There's a difference between making a decision to "have a go at something" and making that change.  Maybe he thought we were done at 2-0 and bringing Ayew on would give some much-needed confidence to the lad.

In reality, it should've been Veretout or Clark or Hutton or Richardson coming on ahead of Ayew.  Mind boggling.  Cost us.

It was the wrong decision but i'm not sure it's the only reason the game was lost. Sanchez and Westwood were pathetic and just collapsed and Guzan gifted them the winning goal. 

[tomh621]

Sherwood **** up massively with our subs today. We were defending great and creating plenty up front. Then all of a sudden we were running on empty, backs against the wall, and he brings on Gestede and Ayew?! Mad. Okay Gil was struggling - sub him off. Don't bring on 2 strikers away from home ffs. 

Edited September 13, 2015 by tomh621

[HanoiVillan]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

What do you want him to learn? How never to make the wrong decision? He's said it right there, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

Respectfully disagree.

There's a difference between making a decision to "have a go at something" and making that change.  Maybe he thought we were done at 2-0 and bringing Ayew on would give some much-needed confidence to the lad.

In reality, it should've been Veretout or Clark or Hutton or Richardson coming on ahead of Ayew.  Mind boggling.  Cost us.

That's exactly it, isn't it? He clearly thought we were on top, going to win the game, and it would be a chance for Ayew to get a run-around. Unfortunately he totally misjudged and underestimated them, much like Van Gaal did last year. They're never beaten at home until the final whistle goes. 

Upshot is he has egg on his face, so wounded pride is probably the source of the bad mood we're seeing. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

What do you want him to learn? How never to make the wrong decision? He's said it right there, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

Ah cool. Let's hope he continues to make dumb mistakes and never react properly to what the opposition does. 

[bobzy]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

What do you want him to learn? How never to make the wrong decision? He's said it right there, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

Respectfully disagree.

There's a difference between making a decision to "have a go at something" and making that change.  Maybe he thought we were done at 2-0 and bringing Ayew on would give some much-needed confidence to the lad.

In reality, it should've been Veretout or Clark or Hutton or Richardson coming on ahead of Ayew.  Mind boggling.  Cost us.

It was the wrong decision but i'm not sure it's the only reason the game was lost. Sanchez and Westwood were pathetic and just collapsed and Guzan gifted them the winning goal. 

I'm 100% certain it was the reason the game was lost.  Even with Sanchez and Westwood being pathetic, having 11 men on the pitch would've helped.

Ayew did absolutely nothing (in fact, he gave Leicester the ball more often than do anything for Villa).  Gil had just given us a 2nd goal.

[DCJonah]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

What do you want him to learn? How never to make the wrong decision? He's said it right there, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

Ah cool. Let's hope he continues to make dumb mistakes and never react properly to what the opposition does. 

Well that seems a pretty daft thing to want.

[TRO]

substitutions are always interesting.

I think its more to do with what the player who comes on does, rather than the position he plays.....If Ayew had of ran riot  it might have been different.

Dyer came on and made an impact.

Thats what we are missing, ours come on and do little and equally the ones on.... Fade so easily.

[markavfc40]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

 

He doesn't say he wasn't wrong does he. He says he is not sure if the changes were the reason the game got away from us. I would put money that if he had his time again he would bring on a different player for Gil. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though and it would do Ayews confidence no good if he came out and said bringing Ayew on for Gil was a mistake.

I am not usually one for if's, buts and maybes but I think we deserve to have more than the four points we have so far. I think we deserved to beat Sunderland. I think today we should have won or at the very least got a draw. I think apart from a stupid mistake we'd have got a point at Palace. We therefore could very easily be sat on 10 points and be sitting pretty. We aren't though but there has been enough in our play to suggest it wouldn't have been an injustice had we secured more points but perhaps more importantly that if as a team, and the manager, we can cut out some silly mistakes and the manager and players can learn to see out games by making changes to play more cautiously when required then this season can still be a more than decent one. As I say though it will need some patience on our part and an acceptance that as a team and manager we have a work in progress.

As I said earlier at this point aside from backing the players and manager the alternative is to start to get on the managers back or worse still call for his head. I acknowledge he has much to learn and given the limited time he has been a manager I wouldn't expect anything other than for him to be a little naive in certain aspects of management. I think he has more than enough about him to learn and improve on his failings though and unlike some don't think he has been given enough time yet to have shown he will never learn. I think given what he did last season in saving us from nailed on relegation and given the very little time he has had with so many new players and coaching staff that getting on his back now would be very premature and more than a little unfair.

Edited September 13, 2015 by markavfc40

[DCJonah]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

What do you want him to learn? How never to make the wrong decision? He's said it right there, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

Respectfully disagree.

There's a difference between making a decision to "have a go at something" and making that change.  Maybe he thought we were done at 2-0 and bringing Ayew on would give some much-needed confidence to the lad.

In reality, it should've been Veretout or Clark or Hutton or Richardson coming on ahead of Ayew.  Mind boggling.  Cost us.

It was the wrong decision but i'm not sure it's the only reason the game was lost. Sanchez and Westwood were pathetic and just collapsed and Guzan gifted them the winning goal. 

 

I'm 100% certain it was the reason the game was lost.  Even with Sanchez and Westwood being pathetic, having 11 men on the pitch would've helped.

Ayew did absolutely nothing (in fact, he gave Leicester the ball more often than do anything for Villa).  Gil had just given us a 2nd goal.

Ayew was awful but Gil had to come off. Veretout would have offered us more but I can't just ignore the awful performance of some of them on the pitch and Guzan being a complete **** up.

[bobzy]

substitutions are always interesting.

I think its more to do with what the player who comes on does, rather than the position he plays.....If Ayew had of ran riot  it might have been different.

Dyer came on and made an impact.

Thats what we are missing, ours come on and do little and equally the ones on.... Fade so easily.

But that's down to the player.  Leicester switched from having Albrighton wide left to playing him wide right (natural right foot, lack of pace) and put Dyer wide left (pace, good with both feet) with Mahrez (got little joy from Amavi) into the centre.  Good tactical move, hard to really respond to that.  Players need to track others effectively.

Completely different to ballsing up a substitution by bringing on the wrong player.

[Butterfingers]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

Taking Gil off is not the issue-I thought it was the right thing to do. I would never, in a month of Sundays replaced him with Aywe though-We needed to shore up the midfield

Bringing Gestede on wasn't as bad but I felt that as we were becoming more desperate in clearing the lines, it was better to have Gabby chasing the hoofs out, rather than Gestede who desn't appear able to run at all.

[bobzy]

“With Carles I had to make it,” he said.

“I was going to make it before he scored as he was struggling with that injury.

“You make changes – sometimes they work for you sometimes they don’t.

“I’m not sure if they were the reasons the game got away from us. People can draw their own conclusion.”

Doesn't think he's wrong, therefore he isn't going to learn from it.

Brilliant.

What do you want him to learn? How never to make the wrong decision? He's said it right there, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

Respectfully disagree.

There's a difference between making a decision to "have a go at something" and making that change.  Maybe he thought we were done at 2-0 and bringing Ayew on would give some much-needed confidence to the lad.

In reality, it should've been Veretout or Clark or Hutton or Richardson coming on ahead of Ayew.  Mind boggling.  Cost us.

It was the wrong decision but i'm not sure it's the only reason the game was lost. Sanchez and Westwood were pathetic and just collapsed and Guzan gifted them the winning goal. 

 

I'm 100% certain it was the reason the game was lost.  Even with Sanchez and Westwood being pathetic, having 11 men on the pitch would've helped.

Ayew did absolutely nothing (in fact, he gave Leicester the ball more often than do anything for Villa).  Gil had just given us a 2nd goal.

Ayew was awful but Gil had to come off. Veretout would have offered us more but I can't just ignore the awful performance of some of them on the pitch and Guzan being a complete **** up.

It simply wouldn't have gotten that far.

 

For **** sake, we're 2-0 up with 30 minutes to go.  Why on **** Earth are you replacing a midfielder (albeit an attacking one) with a **** ridiculously out of form forward.

 

IT MAKES NO SENSE.  AT ALL.  Irrespective of other people eventually doing things badly, I'm 100% sure it wouldn't have come to that if Ayew for Gil hadn't happened.