The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Marka Ragnos]

Yeah, the net-spend argument amounts to very little when you consider that it basically boils down to just two outgoings. For example, the gravity of Spurs' £100m spend in 2013 cannot be downplayed on the basis it was mostly mitigated by the Bale cash. It was nonetheless £100m and a huge opportunity for the club - one that they royally pissed down the drain I might add. Same with us, Benteke's spectacular success enabled us to amass a transfer budget from his departure that we otherwise would never have had. There are no excuses.

 

It is not the same as the Bale/Spurs situation is it. Sherwood lost arguably the four best players he inherited in Benteke, Delph, Vlaar and Cleverley. I think Benteke is a 30 mill player, Delph a 12 - 15 mill player, Vlaar 4 - 5 mill and Cleverley would be considered a 6 - 8 mill player. Lets be conservative and say 50 mill + in total.  Those were probably the only 4 players we had in the squad last season who could get into top 8 sides, aside from Grealish, as shown by the fact three of them now play for teams likely at the very least to finish in the top 8 this season.

Sherwood has spent 50 mill and had to replace the 4 best players he had. Those four best players in a squad that finished 17th. For me had we had kept those players we would have needed to spend 20 mill to push on. We didn't. I do however think Sherwood spent the money he had well and given time I am still very hopeful that we will kick on this season and not be in danger of relegation come the arse end of the season.

How could this be anything but a sensible analysis of a complicated situation?

I think a lot of animus towards Tim is a simple revulsion of his personality. He's open about his feelings. He's passionate. He makes us cringe. He's foolishly voluble at times. He may be impulsive, although I think the jury's still out on that. 

He's almost the opposite of the British stiff upper lip hard man stereotype (and some find this almost impossible to stomach). Personally, I could care less as long as he wins, but it does make him an easy target for disparagement. 

[One For The Road]

If he went, do you think Klopp is a potential replacement? Or am I kidding myself? Didnt he say something along the lines of not having to go to the top club straight away?

If he went, do you think Klopp is a potential replacement? Or am I kidding myself? Didnt he say something along the lines of not having to go to the top club straight away?

Lol

[Zatman]

this thread really is embarrassing at times. Also funny that some of people want him out were staunch defenders of the last manager who played the shittest football that Aston VIlla have ever played

 

people seem to forget how shit we were before, we have 8 goals this season, took us early december to get that last season. thats negative football

[maqroll]

If we lose the Stoke game I will really start to worry. 

[KSV]

this thread really is embarrassing at times. Also funny that some of people want him out were staunch defenders of the last manager who played the shittest football that Aston VIlla have ever played

 

people seem to forget how shit we were before, we have 8 goals this season, took us early december to get that last season. thats negative football

Lambert didnt spend 40 million + pounds in one off season.

It all started so positively under him like it did with Sherwood. I can see it going the same way. We need to stop bringing in british managers as they are not good enough.

[NurembergVillan]

If he was currently caretaker manager would you give him the job on a permanent basis?

Will he turn out to be Garry Monk, or is he just a well dressed John Carver?

[TrentVilla]

When we win its all about him.

When we don't it's down to the players.

That seems to be the general theme to his post match comments.

 

Good managers often aren't at their best when dealing with the press:

Ferguson's fall-outs with the media are legendary, but the lifting of this ban has shocked even his colleagues, particularly as there has been no apology at any point of the complex, tortuous process. It culminated in the BBC's director general, Mark Thompson, travelling to Manchester to meet Ferguson face to face and hear his grievances about the 2004 documentary, Father and Son, about him and his son Jason, then working as a football agent, which had led to Ferguson severing contact.

 

 

There has never been a manager better at using and controlling the press than Fergie. He certainly never did what I'm accusing Sherwood of doing so this is just an odd post all around. 

Edited September 27, 2015 by TrentVilla

[Rugeley Villa]

fergie was the don.

[ChrisVillan]

Some of these oh-so-awful hypocrites who backed Lambert for too long and already want to move on from Sherwood probably know they were too optimistic about Lambert and gave him too much slack. (Me, for one.)

These things are connected. You can't directly compare them because they happened one after the other, so the circumstances are different and the learning experience of the first colours the second. It's entirely normal to have a different reaction but of course in the black-and-white world some of this thread's more prominent dickheads occupy, it's hypocrisy. 

Not to mention the fact that many of us likely never quite went for Lambert because for a long time the owner looked like he'd never sack him. Again, it's not a direct comparison.

[Keyblade]

Lambert knew how to get at that lot at least. We could have won that game if we just had a bit of a go at them. They were there for the taking. Terribly negative performance and I thought this was the antithesis to Sherwood's philosophy. The sad part is, he already demonstrated how to play that way against them in the semifinal last year, so wtf changed? We have a better team now and they were missing some key players, and all we needed was a bit of balls to get in their faces from the beginning. Instead we sat back from minute 1 and conceded in...minute 1. Good job Tim. I'm starting to lose faith in him because he seems to be going back on everything that made me put my faith in him to begin with.

But still, I'll give him more than 7 games with his own team before I come to any real conclusion so I hope he changes things and quick.

[sexbelowsound]

Lambert knew how to get at that lot at least. We could have won that game if we just had a bit of a go at them. They were there for the taking. Terribly negative performance and I thought this was the antithesis to Sherwood's philosophy. The sad part is, he already demonstrated how to play that way against them in the semifinal last year, so wtf changed? We have a better team now and they were missing some key players, and all we needed was a bit of balls to get in their faces from the beginning. Instead we sat back from minute 1 and conceded in...minute 1. Good job Tim. I'm starting to lose faith in him because he seems to be going back on everything that made me put my faith in him to begin with.

But still, I'll give him more than 7 games with his own team before I come to any real conclusion so I hope he changes things and quick.

Exactly my thoughts.

[Richard]

Worst start in 30 years, that includes all starts under Lambert 

[TrentVilla]

Just looked at our next 7 games, really wish I hadn't.

[Keyblade]

Worst start in 30 years, that includes all starts under Lambert 

We also had our best start in 30 years (or something like that) last season under Lambert and we all know how that ended. A bit of patience wouldn't go amiss.

[The Fun Factory]

If we're still in the bottom 3 after 19 games I'll start calling for him to be sacked,  I'll also eat my own head.  

Would you like fries with that?

[romavillan]

I don't think sacking him now would do much for us, or the squad he's just facialised so dramaticaly to convince to join us. I don't think these players that I and a lot of others were so chuffed with getting are suddenly poor players. In fact, despite results and up until the 71st minute against Leicester we have played some very nice football.

I am however worried, the run of fixtures we are now coming into compared to who we have played is a much tougher ask. We appear to be ready to commit suicide at any given moment, the management team don't appear to know the best 11 but weirdly stick with some elements of formation and personnel that really aren't working well and so finding the best 11 without changing things will be hard. All of this on the back of only managing 4 points and 1 win in 7. That's grim in anyone's book.

IMHO Sherwood needs to have the balls to stick to his guns over the style of play he introduced end of last season, this experiment with playing deep and compact and looking to break quickly really has not born any fruit at all. He also needs to be as cocky about our survival prospects as he was in a worse situation back end of last season. The players I think need that sort of confidence in them seeing as they are a young group going through tough times. If we had a squad of experienced players, scaring them into action by saying we're doomed unless we are prepared to fight it out might be a good idea. I don't think it will be with this lot. Equally though I understand it's hard to fill them with confidence when we have 4 points from a possible 21.

There has to come a point when we think about it though, 8 points from 14 games would be very bleak indeed.

[Harry]

I am certainly not in the sacking camp but what has been played out so far this season is really very worrying.

Sherwood says we should have more points on the board and I agree but the fact we have not I would largely attribute to him. His disasterous substitutions and second half tactics against Leicester; his 'rinse and repeat' tactics against Albion; his timid tactics against an out form injury ridden Liverpool are just the three most recent examples. Add to that failing to beat a League 2 side in 90 minutes and a laboured performance against SHA does not fill me with any confidence at all.

However the bit that really worries me is how naive he seems to be in games and I really don't understand what Wilkins is supposed to be doing as part of this management team. At the moment Tim is making Lambert look like a tactical genius.

I just have the horrible sinking deja vu feeling that another manager could get so much more out of these players. Having said all that I think we have to stick with him as its absurb to sack a manager after seven games (but then again if he is never going to change........)

 

Edited September 27, 2015 by Harry

[ReasonforRevolution]

"If we get out of this situation this season, we aren't going to be in it next year. Never. Because I will have the opportunity to build something and I won't let that happen again."
3rd March 2015.

"We need to stay in the division and that is the goal for this season and IF we do we'll be stronger next year. But it is going to be a fight. We know that. I knew that from the start not in hindsight after seven games we've only won one and drawn one. But from the very, very start I knew this was going to be an uphill battle because of the young players we've acquired this season.
26th September 2015

It didn't take long until any optimism and hope has been woefully exhausted out of us. Watching Sherwood's after match comments has among other things got me pondering. Since Martin O'Neill every manager since has told us that we are in transition. It is one constant transitional cycle of doom. I do like Sherwood and for me he was a breath of fresh air when he came in. He was passionate and the team mostly played with drive and determination. I know there were some high profile horror shows but that was always going to be par for the course. Everything that endeared me to him and his teams is fading and he is slowly lowering our expectations in a Lambert-esque resignation of our inferiority. He remains planted on the bench with performances that are at best lacklustre. Post Lambert I enjoyed seeing a manager on the sidelines actually looking like he cared. I think Sherwood has been very wise in the transfer market with his budget. We lost the spine of our team and the replacements have been good. I'd sooner have Micah Richards than Ron Vlaar and Iddy Gana than Cleverley. If someone would of said Snake is off and but we are getting a wonderkid from Barcelona I would of took that alongside Veretout and others at our disposal. And of course there is Benteke. I think any team would struggle after losing Benteke however Rudy as a replacement is spot on. I am not for one minute saying he is a better player however Benteke was here to score goals and Sherwood has got someone who does that. Rudy has scored more goals than Benteke this season and it could be argued better in the air. I do think that there is a team there to compete however part me is actually starting to believe some kind of deep routed mentality issue with the club and if you put Sherwood in charge of this Villa team in a Southampton kit at St. Marys and they'd be performing (just an example). I like Sherwood, obviously I don't always agree with his decisions but he had my backing at the start and will continue to do so. When he was appointed in his first press conference he berated the fact that a massive club like Villa have been fighting relegation and it was a total breath of fresh air. So look again at the quotes above. He has walked in full of life and ambition which has been completely drained out of him. The one common theme is the club itself. The optimism has gone and we are once again walking a very well trodden claret and blue path that no manager can seem to get us off.  

 

Edited September 27, 2015 by ReasonforRevolution

[Villarocker]

I think Sherwood's problem is that he talks the talk but he's not walking the walk etc. 

It's OK being cocky and saying stuff like we won't be battling relegation next season but, if you end up down there, you are going to be made to look foolish and then people start to question your ability which, in my opinion, is fair. 

The team needs to be given time though. He's hardly had them all together fit and we need to see what happens when those players are fit and he's got them all available to him. If he's messing things up then, surely the fans will have the right to have a go at him. 

[powell91]

I really think he needs to change up the formation aswell and stop being so predictable. Whenever a team plays high pressing football our players crumble and cant kope in possession because they are not confident on the ball. Im really tired of watching a 4-3-3 formation our midfield is not strong enough.