Petitioning for change?

[useless]

Reading the open letter it sounds more like a protest against Lerner than Lambert, as they admit that Lerner is unlikely to fire him whilst the club is for sale. In that case not sure what it's meant to achieve. Just have to wait, could be a long time.

[Stevo985]

I don't know what the message of the protest is. That's their biggest problem.

[Richard]

If you are going to protest you need:

 

1. Something that captures media attention

2. Something that the supporter base can get behind and gets over their apathy.  Majority will not want to get involved and that is not just Villa

3. Something that is clear and says what you want,  is not a confusing message so you have to decide the message.  you want change so what? what change? more money spent? the owner to go? the manager to go? benteke to wear the number 9 shirt? the half time queues to be dealt with quicker?  what is the nature of the change you need to be clear and precise

4. Your protest can not negatively influence the one thing you say you are in it for.  if it does that then forget it you are doomed.  Even if you do not think it does have a negative influence if someone says it does and enough people can believe that argument then forget it.  So you have to cover all angles and ensure it cant be said

5. Similar to 4 it cant impact safety,  if it does or can be said it does forget it

6, It would help if it was cheap and ideally no cot because once you start messing around with collections to fund it you are in a heap of shit

7. What next? So you cover off all that then what? what happens if your protest isnt listened to?  You have to make plans for that and what you do next

8. There are going to be fans that will not agree with this,  in fact vehemently disagree.  How do you deal with accusations of dividing the fan base?

 

So you want to petition?  I do not agree in the slightest and could cite any one of the 8 reasons above but they are the things you'll need to cover off.

 

One of the most effective ones at Villa were the £ signs and then not everyone got involved.

Not just the unified message Steve,  see above

[Stevo985]

What's the message?

[mykeyb]

How much destruction would Lerner have to do to AVFC before everyone would support the protest.

 

Relegation?

Double Relegation?

Administration?

[sexbelowsound]

How much destruction would Lerner have to do to AVFC before everyone would support the protest.

 

Relegation?

Double Relegation?

Administration?

 

Do people have issues with protesting against Lerner? I thought, and I may be mistaken, that the issues are more to do with protesting against specifically Lambert and the playing style during the game.

 

Any opposition to protesting against Lerner might be down to apathy. He really doesn't care what we think and has drained the majority of us of all interest.

[Eames]

How much destruction would Lerner have to do to AVFC before everyone would support the protest.

 

Relegation?

Double Relegation?

Administration?

What is it about though? Whats the message? 

 

The ££ sign stuff with Deadly was brilliant. Even the idiots in the press box knew what we were on about. 

 

"We're not fickle - we just don't like you" was equally good. You can't fail to know what its about. 

 

Wandering in late - could be about the Chairman, the Board, Paul Lambert, Randy Learner, Parking Costs, the price of a pint, a smash on the Aston Expressway or a delay at Witton Station. It doesn't mean anything. Even some semi-literate gimp with his mum's bed linen gives you a better message than that. 

 

If you absolutely insist on making a protest turn up with a bunch of "For Sale" signs, or "£" signs - or "Going Down" banners whatever.... just don't rely on some shit web petition or a meaningless symbolic gesture. 

[Richard]

How much destruction would Lerner have to do to AVFC before everyone would support the protest.

 

Relegation?

Double Relegation?

Administration?

couple of problems there.

Is it Lerner ? Or lambert as well? Will those protesting want to protest for both or just one and if just one will they be happy if the protest is hijacked to protest about the other at the same time.

In addition if it's about Lerner what are the protestors going to say ? "Lerner out"? I think he'd be protesting too given he has already said he wants to go and the club is for sale. So does it say "hurry up and go" ?not much of a protest there surely. So if it is about Lerner what is the message and if it is Lerner and lambert then what there will be some not happy about protesting about both and a protest about Lerner is pretty futile .

With Ellis a protest was always an option. Lerner saying what he said last summer has effectively nullified the protest potential

[Supervillan78]

How much destruction would Lerner have to do to AVFC before everyone would support the protest.

 

Relegation?

Double Relegation?

Administration?

couple of problems there.

Is it Lerner ? Or lambert as well? Will those protesting want to protest for both or just one and if just one will they be happy if the protest is hijacked to protest about the other at the same time.

In addition if it's about Lerner what are the protestors going to say ? "Lerner out"? I think he'd be protesting too given he has already said he wants to go and the club is for sale. So does it say "hurry up and go" ?not much of a protest there surely. So if it is about Lerner what is the message and if it is Lerner and lambert then what there will be some not happy about protesting about both and a protest about Lerner is pretty futile .

With Ellis a protest was always an option. Lerner saying what he said last summer has effectively nullified the protest potential

Have to agree Richard, the club is already up for sale, Lerner wants out and has taken action to that effect. The problem is that we've not been able to find a buyer and no petition is going to be able to change that. As for Lambert, well he isn't going anywhere either not while Lerner is still in charge.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Supervillan78

[DCJonah]

Whose mad?

Just think its stupid for you to tell others what they can't mention when backing up their opinion, one which you disagree with.

But we all know your opinion, you've stated more or less the same things consistently since you joined.

You always mention how pants we've been over the last 2.5 years.

You think Benteke is amazing and can't do any wrong (despite finding himself offside more times than Angel ever did).

You think Lambert should be sacked.

You're not a fan of Lerner.

So, apart from Benteke, being a villa fan must be pretty sad for you right now, because everything you say is negative.

Shame for you i guess.

It is a shame. Wish I was watching things through your eyes because I'm struggling to see where the good things are to enjoy? Please share so we can all bask in them.

And as for repeating things, we all know you don't like other villa fans yet you keep banging on about it.

[Stevo985]

I've read about the protest and I still don't know what it's about.

 

The board? Lerner? Lambert? Everything?

 

It's not going to happen chaps.

[KHV]

It needs to be about Lambert, he should be getting more out of this group of players. His coaching and managerial techniques are clearly not working a new approach is needed now.

[lapal_fan]

 

 

Whose mad?

Just think its stupid for you to tell others what they can't mention when backing up their opinion, one which you disagree with.

But we all know your opinion, you've stated more or less the same things consistently since you joined.

You always mention how pants we've been over the last 2.5 years.

You think Benteke is amazing and can't do any wrong (despite finding himself offside more times than Angel ever did).

You think Lambert should be sacked.

You're not a fan of Lerner.

So, apart from Benteke, being a villa fan must be pretty sad for you right now, because everything you say is negative.

Shame for you i guess.

It is a shame. Wish I was watching things through your eyes because I'm struggling to see where the good things are to enjoy? Please share so we can all bask in them.

And as for repeating things, we all know you don't like other villa fans yet you keep banging on about it.

 

 

Wrong, I just don't like some villa fans, the fans that are objective, can see the wider picture, the reasons why we're in this mess in the first place, why - a protest will achieve absolutely diddly squat - are absolutely great in my eyes.  It's the ones that can't see further then the end of their noses, who go to the game and shout and ball and scream even though the people (see teenager/20 odd year old kids) they're shouting at can't hear them - so having absolutely no effect, apart from further annoying the people around them - the people who are desperately clamouring for someone to blame, even though really, that person is actually a large group of people, the people who expect things to happen, because we're Aston Villa, because we've had success in the past, like we've some God given right to beat everyone who lies below us in the table or with a lower reputation than us, or to give the large clubs a really good, tight game where we don't get embarrassed, because - y'know, we're Aston Villa and for some reason, people get embarrassed by a bit of stick they get at work and take it as a personal reflection on their entire being - yea, I don't like them, because they're deluded and take the actions of a football club personally.

 

What do I enjoy? Well it's not the current football, but saying that, I didn't enjoy watching in MONs final season, I remember when we drew 2-2 at home with Everton and I thought "I'm not getting a season ticket next season, because I'm bored and I think I'll have better things to do with my time".  So you could say I have fairly high expectations when it comes to the standard of football. 

 

I don't enjoy looking week after week at us drawing games we should be winning, and losing games we should be doing better in, see Leicester, we were awful, why would anybody enjoy that shit?

 

I don't enjoy where I think we'll end up if this crappy situation we find ourselves in continues, but I think it'll get worse before it gets better.

 

I don't enjoy coming on here any more (on-topic anyway) and seeing the same stuff going round in circles, week after week, with endless negativity.

 

So what do I like?  I enjoy the hope that something good will be on the horizon, I like it when we get good buys and we can anticipate how they'll do, how long it'll be before they get cherry picked by a big club, or when they'll decide to leave on a bosman for nothing

 

I enjoy that we have a manager that - despite how poor he's doing currently - seems to actually be proud of being here, and treats us like a big club.

 

I enjoy looking at other opinions on here, apart from if they're too negative, because what good does that do?  It's not that I just hate negativity either, everyone is entitled to vent, but for the last XXX years it's just the same old shite isn't it? Everyone knows losing to Bradford over two legs is about as shite as it gets, but after 18 months - let it go.

 

I enjoy being a Villa fan, you don't change teams when the going gets tough do you?  I stopped going because I grew tired of football as a whole - at a time when we were finishing 6th, I had other interests that I was getting into like buying a house, cricket and other stuff, so I stopped going.  I wish the fans that so obviously don't enjoy it didn't go, because they are the people that make the people who do want to be there a misery.

 

But I'm the sort of person (I think) that can take a step back, look at the reasons why we're still employing a guy breaking all the bad records, and still try and look at what we're doing with a little optimism.  I can see that we're trying to change the philosophy of the club, I can see that we're buying young players who mostly, are doing a good all things considered.  But ultimately, I know that even though in the foreseeable future, we're more or less doomed, that in the unforeseeable future, we'll be absolutely fine and might even win that pesky F.A. Cup.

 

UTV.

[darrenm]

I'd certainly sign a petition for change. I think it's disgusting that you should pay for anything without getting the remainder of the tender in return.

[useless]

I assume it must be about Lerner because the whole point of it being eight minutes is so that each minute represents a year that he's been at the club. Seems unfair on the team and pointless as Randy hasn't been in the country since October. It'll come to nothing anyway.

[CrackpotForeigner]

 

 

 I just don't like some villa fans, the fans that are objective, can see the wider picture, the reasons why we're in this mess in the first place, why - a protest will achieve absolutely diddly squat - are absolutely great in my eyes.  It's the ones that can't see further then the end of their noses, who go to the game and shout and ball and scream even though the people (see teenager/20 odd year old kids) they're shouting at can't hear them - so having absolutely no effect, apart from further annoying the people around them - the people who are desperately clamouring for someone to blame, even though really, that person is actually a large group of people, the people who expect things to happen, because we're Aston Villa, because we've had success in the past, like we've some God given right to beat everyone who lies below us in the table or with a lower reputation than us, or to give the large clubs a really good, tight game where we don't get embarrassed, because - y'know, we're Aston Villa and for some reason, people get embarrassed by a bit of stick they get at work and take it as a personal reflection on their entire being - yea, I don't like them, because they're deluded and take the actions of a football club personally.

 

What do I enjoy? Well it's not the current football, but saying that, I didn't enjoy watching in MONs final season, I remember when we drew 2-2 at home with Everton and I thought "I'm not getting a season ticket next season, because I'm bored and I think I'll have better things to do with my time".  So you could say I have fairly high expectations when it comes to the standard of football. 

 

I don't enjoy looking week after week at us drawing games we should be winning, and losing games we should be doing better in, see Leicester, we were awful, why would anybody enjoy that shit?

 

I don't enjoy where I think we'll end up if this crappy situation we find ourselves in continues, but I think it'll get worse before it gets better.

 

I don't enjoy coming on here any more (on-topic anyway) and seeing the same stuff going round in circles, week after week, with endless negativity.

 

So what do I like?  I enjoy the hope that something good will be on the horizon, I like it when we get good buys and we can anticipate how they'll do, how long it'll be before they get cherry picked by a big club, or when they'll decide to leave on a bosman for nothing

 

I enjoy that we have a manager that - despite how poor he's doing currently - seems to actually be proud of being here, and treats us like a big club.

 

I enjoy looking at other opinions on here, apart from if they're too negative, because what good does that do?  It's not that I just hate negativity either, everyone is entitled to vent, but for the last XXX years it's just the same old shite isn't it? Everyone knows losing to Bradford over two legs is about as shite as it gets, but after 18 months - let it go.

 

I enjoy being a Villa fan, you don't change teams when the going gets tough do you?  I stopped going because I grew tired of football as a whole - at a time when we were finishing 6th, I had other interests that I was getting into like buying a house, cricket and other stuff, so I stopped going.  I wish the fans that so obviously don't enjoy it didn't go, because they are the people that make the people who do want to be there a misery.

 

But I'm the sort of person (I think) that can take a step back, look at the reasons why we're still employing a guy breaking all the bad records, and still try and look at what we're doing with a little optimism.  I can see that we're trying to change the philosophy of the club, I can see that we're buying young players who mostly, are doing a good all things considered.  But ultimately, I know that even though in the foreseeable future, we're more or less doomed, that in the unforeseeable future, we'll be absolutely fine and might even win that pesky F.A. Cup.

 

UTV.

 

 

This is a post of considerable awesomeness. Like the bolded bit especially.

[sexbelowsound]

 

 

 

 I just don't like some villa fans, the fans that are objective, can see the wider picture, the reasons why we're in this mess in the first place, why - a protest will achieve absolutely diddly squat - are absolutely great in my eyes.  It's the ones that can't see further then the end of their noses, who go to the game and shout and ball and scream even though the people (see teenager/20 odd year old kids) they're shouting at can't hear them - so having absolutely no effect, apart from further annoying the people around them - the people who are desperately clamouring for someone to blame, even though really, that person is actually a large group of people, the people who expect things to happen, because we're Aston Villa, because we've had success in the past, like we've some God given right to beat everyone who lies below us in the table or with a lower reputation than us, or to give the large clubs a really good, tight game where we don't get embarrassed, because - y'know, we're Aston Villa and for some reason, people get embarrassed by a bit of stick they get at work and take it as a personal reflection on their entire being - yea, I don't like them, because they're deluded and take the actions of a football club personally.

 

What do I enjoy? Well it's not the current football, but saying that, I didn't enjoy watching in MONs final season, I remember when we drew 2-2 at home with Everton and I thought "I'm not getting a season ticket next season, because I'm bored and I think I'll have better things to do with my time".  So you could say I have fairly high expectations when it comes to the standard of football. 

 

I don't enjoy looking week after week at us drawing games we should be winning, and losing games we should be doing better in, see Leicester, we were awful, why would anybody enjoy that shit?

 

I don't enjoy where I think we'll end up if this crappy situation we find ourselves in continues, but I think it'll get worse before it gets better.

 

I don't enjoy coming on here any more (on-topic anyway) and seeing the same stuff going round in circles, week after week, with endless negativity.

 

So what do I like?  I enjoy the hope that something good will be on the horizon, I like it when we get good buys and we can anticipate how they'll do, how long it'll be before they get cherry picked by a big club, or when they'll decide to leave on a bosman for nothing

 

I enjoy that we have a manager that - despite how poor he's doing currently - seems to actually be proud of being here, and treats us like a big club.

 

I enjoy looking at other opinions on here, apart from if they're too negative, because what good does that do?  It's not that I just hate negativity either, everyone is entitled to vent, but for the last XXX years it's just the same old shite isn't it? Everyone knows losing to Bradford over two legs is about as shite as it gets, but after 18 months - let it go.

 

I enjoy being a Villa fan, you don't change teams when the going gets tough do you?  I stopped going because I grew tired of football as a whole - at a time when we were finishing 6th, I had other interests that I was getting into like buying a house, cricket and other stuff, so I stopped going.  I wish the fans that so obviously don't enjoy it didn't go, because they are the people that make the people who do want to be there a misery.

 

But I'm the sort of person (I think) that can take a step back, look at the reasons why we're still employing a guy breaking all the bad records, and still try and look at what we're doing with a little optimism.  I can see that we're trying to change the philosophy of the club, I can see that we're buying young players who mostly, are doing a good all things considered.  But ultimately, I know that even though in the foreseeable future, we're more or less doomed, that in the unforeseeable future, we'll be absolutely fine and might even win that pesky F.A. Cup.

 

UTV.

 

 

This is a post of considerable awesomeness. Like the bolded bit especially.

 

 

Really should be a place to sticky certain posts because unfortunately this post will be lost as we go round and round in circles.

Edited January 14, 2015 by sexbelowsound

[omariqy]

I personally think it is pointless but I certainly won't berate anyone who does.  Feel sorry for Gil to see that in his first match.

[andyh]

I really can't remember whether it was Wolves or Albion fans that called Villa fans 'Seals'.

 

I see why some are though.

Edited January 14, 2015 by andyh

[GENTLEMAN]

I really can't remember whether it was Wolves or Albion fans that called Villa fans 'Seals'.

 

I see why some are though.

Wolves and Albion suck.