Paul Lambert

[NIVillan]

 

Of course I have. Despite me saying it you've still taken this 'lowered expectations' as a better fan kind of comment.

It would be ridiculous to expect us to challenge for the top 4 but in the same way I think its ridiculous to not expect better than relegation battles, awful football and club record breaking home form.

 

 

I guess you wasnt around in the 70s when we spent half the decade outside the top division including 2 in the third tier. 

Or the 80s where apart from 2 seasons we were outside the top 6 and ended the last 4 seasons in a relagtion battle or Div 2.

The 90s was a golden period as for the first time since before 1916 we consintently were in the top half of the table (apart from 2 relegation battles!).

the 00s the same as 90s apart from a couple of relegation battles we finished top half the majority of the time.

 

SO if Villa after this season finish 10th and above for the rest of the decade we will be matching 100 years of our History.

[Stevo985]

This strawman that 'because people accept what's going on rather than moaning constantly about it means they're delighted about it' is really, really irritating.

This.

 

It's the old "black and white" thing again.

 

Just because I'm not **** furious at everything Lambert and/or Lerner does, means I must be delighted with everything?

It couldn't possibly be that I see the problems but still back the manager? Nope not that. That means I've "lowered my expectations"

 

Nobody supporting the club is happy. Just because some of us see a way out under the current manager doesn't mean we're deluded.

There is a middle ground. Most of us sit there. It's the loud ones at either end of the spectrum that do all the shouting on here. It seems if you don't see the negative in absolutely everything that ever happens at the club at the moment then you're deluded, or you've lowered expectations, or you're making excuses, or you have an agenda.

 

It must be so **** dull to be that negative.

[StefanAVFC]

 

 

Again with this ridiculous 'bigging other teams up'. Let me guess, it's because they're ahead of us in the table? But I thought league position didn't matter? If Newcastle had 4/5 less points right now, they'd be in serious danger. They haven't looked like getting close to winning a game in over a month. 8th/9th/10th is achievable next season. It would have been achievable this year without that awful Christmas run.

 

And if my aunty had a pair of bollocks she'd be my uncle. All struggling sides have a what if tale to tell. In fact you've just mentioned another. If Newcastle hadn't had such an awful last month or so they'd be pushing for top 6/7.

 

We are just 4 points above the drop zone because we are a poor side who have served up dross for much of the season.

 

 

But that's exactly the same as 'if we weren't lucky against Southampton we'd be in the bottom 3' or 'we didn't deserve to beat City'.

 

It's all exactly the same bollocks.

[LondonLax]

 

 

Of course I have. Despite me saying it you've still taken this 'lowered expectations' as a better fan kind of comment.

It would be ridiculous to expect us to challenge for the top 4 but in the same way I think its ridiculous to not expect better than relegation battles, awful football and club record breaking home form.

 

 

I guess you wasnt around in the 70s when we spent half the decade outside the top division including 2 in the third tier. 

Or the 80s where apart from 2 seasons we were outside the top 6 and ended the last 4 seasons in a relagtion battle or Div 2.

The 90s was a golden period as for the first time since before 1916 we consintently were in the top half of the table (apart from 2 relegation battles!).

the 00s the same as 90s apart from a couple of relegation battles we finished top half the majority of the time.

 

SO if Villa after this season finish 10th and above for the rest of the decade we will be matching 100 years of our History.

 

 

I started following Villa at the start of the 2000s when we were struggling along with Graham Taylor Mk2 as manager and players like Kinsella and Allback, just avoiding relegation.

 

Apart from a blip when Lerner took over and threw money at the club our current plight is par for the course as a Villa fan as far as I'm concerned

[The_Lions_Roar]

So by not accepting it, what are you going to do about it?

Just in case you missed it BJ.

The risk is that what a lot of fans will "do" about it will be lose interest and stop going to matches.

Those who don't share the joy of chanting "We are 12th and that's not so bad."

If people did that then they'd be no one there now, we've been a mid table team for my whole life.

It's not a case of being happy with being 12th, that's certainly not why I attend matches.

[Big_John_10]

Just because I'm not **** furious at everything Lambert and/or Lerner does, means I must be delighted with everything?

Who ever said that?

[Stevo985]

 

Just because I'm not **** furious at everything Lambert and/or Lerner does, means I must be delighted with everything?

Who ever said that?

 

You have certainly implied it many, many, MANY times

[Big_John_10]

That you're delighted with everything?

You've lowered your expectations by accepting and being content with the past 18 months but that doesn't mean you're delighted.

[lexicon]

How do you know what his expectations were? 

[Stevo985]

That you're delighted with everything?

You've lowered your expectations by accepting and being content with the past 18 months but that doesn't mean you're delighted.

Who says I've accepted and am content with the past 18 months?

 

Just because something happens below my expectations doesn't mean I have lowered my expectations if I don't throw my toys out of the pram about it. It's possible for the team to perform below my expectations but for me not to be totally enraged and furious about it. It's also possible for me to be unhappy and still post in a reaosnable, balance manner as opposed to posting something negative in every thread, every hour of every day.

 

If Man City don't win the league this season, would they be have lowered their expectations if they don't want Pellegrini sacked?

 

This season has been below my expectations (so far). I am not happy about this. I don't want Paul Lambert sacked.

 

All of those statements are true. You seem to be operating on the presumption that if something is below expectations, that automatically means it is the end of the world.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Stevo985

[markavfc40]

 

 

 

Again with this ridiculous 'bigging other teams up'. Let me guess, it's because they're ahead of us in the table? But I thought league position didn't matter? If Newcastle had 4/5 less points right now, they'd be in serious danger. They haven't looked like getting close to winning a game in over a month. 8th/9th/10th is achievable next season. It would have been achievable this year without that awful Christmas run.

 

And if my aunty had a pair of bollocks she'd be my uncle. All struggling sides have a what if tale to tell. In fact you've just mentioned another. If Newcastle hadn't had such an awful last month or so they'd be pushing for top 6/7.

 

We are just 4 points above the drop zone because we are a poor side who have served up dross for much of the season.

 

 

But that's exactly the same as 'if we weren't lucky against Southampton we'd be in the bottom 3' or 'we didn't deserve to beat City'.

 

It's all exactly the same bollocks.

 

 

 

I can appreciate that argument but the difference for me is the reason that we had such a shit run over Christmas was that we played to the same standard as we have for 90% of the season but there were not the smash and grab raids in terms of picking up points. It wasn't that we had a blip and started playing poorly. That has pretty much been the case since the first few weeks of the season. The blip is actually when we play well.

 

I am not in any way solely blaming Lambert by the way for the dross we have served up this season and the fact that we haven't progressed and kicked on. The reasons for that run much deeper and fall on far more shoulders than just one man.

 

However I gave up a couple of months ago blindly defending the guy and looking for all the excuses under the sun as for why we have been so poor. I rated Lambert highly when he arrived and still more out of hope than expectation think he could come good with more backing. However the reality of what I have witnessed this season means I can at this time no longer defend him. In fact his failure in almost two seasons to come up with a formation/system/style of play to give us at the very least a half decent home record is indefensible.

 

I believe you would struggle to find any fan more passionate than me about this great club. Come shit or shine I will go to the games back the players and manager 100% whilst the game is on and hand on heart in over 30 years of going can say I have never once booed the players off. It is gut wrenching seeing us struggle and I take no pleasure in pointing the finger at Lambert. In fact I am desperate for him to prove that the fact I was calling for him to be appointed as way back as the arse end of Houlliers reign and that the faith I had in him when he arrived and maintained for the best part of 16 months was justified.

Edited February 21, 2014 by markavfc40

[Big_John_10]

It's possible for the team to perform below my expectations but for me not to be totally enraged and furious about it.

Fair enough, I probably shouldn't have suggested you personally have lowered your expectations.

My original point of lowered expectations was more to do with those that defend the manager, excuse the performances and defend the owner. Those that are content with club record lows and awful football being played.

[Stevo985]

It's possible for the team to perform below my expectations but for me not to be totally enraged and furious about it.

Fair enough, I probably shouldn't have suggested you personally have lowered your expectations.

Which is exactly the problem with you throwing that bullshit phrase around.

I defend the manager. He's performing below my expectations this season.

Sometimes there are explanations for things that aren't excuses.

Am I happy with Paul Lambert? Not entirely.

But I still back him, and I'll defend him when I feel it's necessary.

None of this is because my expectations have been lowered. I just don't believe in this cut off that if someone is performing below expectations you automatically have to want them out.

I believe that he can turn us around. Like I've said before, that may be wrong. But it doesn't make me some sort of blind follower or Lambert sympathiser just because I don't want him sacked because he hasn't quite lived up to my expectations.

[sharkyvilla]

It's possible for the team to perform below my expectations but for me not to be totally enraged and furious about it.

Fair enough, I probably shouldn't have suggested you personally have lowered your expectations.

My original point of lowered expectations was more to do with those that defend the manager, excuse the performances and defend the owner. Those that are content with club record lows and awful football being played.

I reckon most people's expectations were lowered because of the mess created in the 3 years before Lambert came to the club and the mistakes of the 3 previous managers. He's the one who has had to sort it out under all sorts of constraints. My expectations of Lambert were to stay up last season, finish 12th or above this season and then push on next. It was always going to take at least half a dozen transfer windows to sort everything out.

[Electric Avenue]

So by not accepting it, what are you going to do about it?

Just in case you missed it BJ.

The risk is that what a lot of fans will "do" about it will be lose interest and stop going to matches.

Those who don't share the joy of chanting "We are 12th and that's not so bad."

So by not accepting it, what are you going to do about it?

Just in case you missed it BJ.

The risk is that what a lot of fans will "do" about it will be lose interest and stop going to matches.

Those who don't share the joy of chanting "We are 12th and that's not so bad."

Good point

[briny_ear]

This strawman that 'because people accept what's going on rather than moaning constantly about it means they're delighted about it' is really, really irritating.

Isn't the straw man rather to dismiss anyone who expresses concern about our performance as "moaners", thus leaving an easy and lazy argument that "moaning" is wrong and doesn't need to be listened to?

[The_Lions_Roar]

It's possible for the team to perform below my expectations but for me not to be totally enraged and furious about it.

Fair enough, I probably shouldn't have suggested you personally have lowered your expectations.

My original point of lowered expectations was more to do with those that defend the manager, excuse the performances and defend the owner. Those that are content with club record lows and awful football being played.

Stop throwing words into peoples mouths.

I'll defend the manager as I believe in what he's trying to do, it doesn't mean I've lowered my expectations and have accepted that we should battle relegation season after season.

[GENTLEMAN]

People really do underestimate the mess we were in before Lambert arrived.

[Electric Avenue]

Just to clarify, this isn't a "better fan than you" post, but :

Can I just ask some of the lambert apologists, do you go to the games, particularly at home ? Do you shell out the dollars to watch the shite being dished up week after week, do you sacrifice hours of your weekends to trudge down to villa park in all sorts of weather , knowing in the back of your mind how inept it's going to be. Do you sit there in the cold watching 11 players going through the motions, looking to the bench for guidance, leadership and motivation and getting no return ?

Or do you watch streams , slam the laptop shut after another defeat and get straight back on GTA ? (No offence to GTA)

I think it's far easier to be patient with lambert and his cronies if it's the latter.

[markavfc40]

People really do underestimate the mess we were in before Lambert arrived.

 

I don't think you could be more wrong. I think everyone appreciates the mess we were in. The thing many of us are struggling with is the fact 20 months down the line we have seen no progression. We battled relegation last season finishing on 41 points. Almost three quarters of the way through this season we sit on 28 points 4 points above the relegation zone. Unless we have a major upturn or downturn in form we will finish with in 2 or 3 points either way on what we did last season. Players individually and the club as a whole have stood still. In fact in terms of performances we have gone backwards.

Edited February 21, 2014 by markavfc40