Paul Lambert

[Electric Avenue]

Indeed Papillon, in fact I like your business analogy. I'd say, our prime objective as a "business" right now is to simply retain our PL status. If lambert achieves that, unfortunately no matter how dire the football or tactics are I think the owner will keep him in place. Therefore the only way I see him going is if he walks or we get relegated.

[TRO]

What's with the Ron Saunders comparisons?That was a completely different time.

 

Makes no difference if it was 1920....the principles of what he done remain the same.....yes the AMOUNT of money differs, but you go and tell Ron Saunders it was easier in them days....he will probably laugh at you.

 

He had very little money, but in comparison Liverpool outflanked him on that score.....He had what we could have(equivalent) .....but havn't Tony Barton & Roy McLaren.

Edited February 20, 2014 by TRO

[TRO]

What's with the Ron Saunders comparisons?That was a completely different time.

 

do you know, that was so predictable.....it was just a question of who first.

 

I never mentioned another manager like Jose Mourinho who did it with Porto.....BEFORE he got famous, due to the plethora of mitigation that comes out with all that.

 

Individual Player progress.....thats what my point was.....and it can be done a bit better than what we are doing without mega money.

 

If you accept mediocrity you will have it for ever.....I also accept managers need time, but during that time you want to see some shoots of progress, before the real progress starts.

 

Ps If you are travelling to London and after 2 hours you're still at Covenrty....I would suggest a problem.....If however you was at St Albans, I would suggest all is well despite not being in London yet.

 

come on guys, you can see its not going anywhere.

 

pps lets get to the end of the season and take stock.

Edited February 20, 2014 by TRO

[The_Lions_Roar]

I'd be surprised if more than 50% of managers signings turn out to be classed as a success.

Anything to back that stat up ? Sounds to me like just another sound bite to defend lambert.

The I'd be surprised bit is a clue.

[terrytini]

The Saunders reference is interesting on many levels.

 

I think one of the key differences between 'pro' and 'anti' PL people is simply that a fair number of the 'pro' may be just as unhappy with various aspects (Home form, some buys, overall points, whatever) as those who want rid - but simply think we could reap good rewards for being patient.

 

Saunders had already been in charge when he got us up into Div 1, and then had a great second (not first) season there  -but then had 3 poorer seasons, where we effectively went nowhere, before our Glory Year.

 

So yes, his staff may have spotted and coached players well - but in addition he was given time.

 

It doesn't mean PL WILL be a sucess - however any individual defines it (and I must admit it is odd how a Message Board with almost ALL fans saying they expect top 6-8 within a short time is described by some as low expectations when we have NEVER averaged Top 6 over a sustained period ) - but it another example of a patient Board getting a reward.......then look what happened when the impatience started, the glorious 80's !!

 

Any success we have ever had has been when we have stuck with a Manager.

 

Remember where GT finished the year before he got us 2nd ?

Edited February 20, 2014 by terrytini

[The_Lions_Roar]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/sir-alex-fergusons-99-signings-4002742

I'd say at least half of these were poor signings.

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/sir-alex-fergusons-99-signings-4002742

I'd say at least half of these were poor signings.

 

Whilst I don't quite agree that only 50% of a managers signings are a success, it's quite surprising some of the terrible players Fergie signed.

 

Using that guy's rating system, which is obviously hugely subjective, Fergie averaged about 5.5/10 for his signings. Again, I'm surprised he signed so many duds, and quite a few recently too.

 

I suppose the main difference is Utd didn't have to rely on those players to play for their first team that often.

[Danishlad]

Saying the players are rubbish is a little premature.

They said Bale was rubbish, Ramsey hopeless, even Leeds didn't want Cantona.

Lets hope Tonev is the next Bale

[The_Lions_Roar]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/sir-alex-fergusons-99-signings-4002742

I'd say at least half of these were poor signings.

Whilst I don't quite agree that only 50% of a managers signings are a success, it's quite surprising some of the terrible players Fergie signed.

Using that guy's rating system, which is obviously hugely subjective, Fergie averaged about 5.5/10 for his signings. Again, I'm surprised he signed so many duds, and quite a few recently too.

I suppose the main difference is Utd didn't have to rely on those players to play for their first team that often.

And that's the difference, united didn't have to rely on many of these signings and they weren't all signed in such a short period.

Its just an example that all managers signed a lot of did players that we easily forget about.

[Rovers13]

Amazing that Kleberson can't even get into the Unions side now, though he showed class whenever picked last year.

[StefanAVFC]

A signing 'flopping' isn't always to do with money either.

 

Lamela

Soldado

Cornelius

Osvaldo

 

Huge money signings that have flopped hard.

[briny_ear]

Saunders had already been in charge when he got us up into Div 1, and then had a great second (not first) season there  -but then had 3 poorer seasons, where we effectively went nowhere, before our Glory Year.

 

 

Right, your definition of "poorer seasons", "effectively" going "nowhere" entailed us finishing 8th, 8th and 7th, while adding quality to the squad, for example John Deehan, Kenny Swain and Gary Shaw,  with a home record of 11 wins/33 goals, 8/37, 11/29 respectively.

 

Your man has a little way to go before he compares even with Ron Saunders' "wilderness" years. 

[StefanAVFC]

'Your man'. What even is that?

[briny_ear]

'Your man'. What even is that?

It's an Irish expression.

 

"Yer man (your man) and Yer wan/one (your one) are used in referring to an individual other than the speaker and the person spoken to"

[samjp26]

So Lambert has publicly confirmed that the reason Hutton isn't playing is because of money.

This proves once again that Lambert created this bomb squad and overhauled the team not just because he felt like it, but because he had to due the board wanting to cut back.

(Just for those that still believe he spent £40m on many players and alienated several of the players he inherited, just for the sake of it)

Edited February 21, 2014 by samjp26

[TRO]

 

Why do people keep saying Lambert has had a "tiny" budget

He has.

 

so does that mean he can't get a better first touch on the training ground out of some of them....none of his "young and hungry" players are improving.....they look "fat and happy" to me.

[StefanAVFC]

Fat?

 

What a load of tripe.

[TRO]

The Saunders reference is interesting on many levels.

 

I think one of the key differences between 'pro' and 'anti' PL people is simply that a fair number of the 'pro' may be just as unhappy with various aspects (Home form, some buys, overall points, whatever) as those who want rid - but simply think we could reap good rewards for being patient.

 

Saunders had already been in charge when he got us up into Div 1, and then had a great second (not first) season there  -but then had 3 poorer seasons, where we effectively went nowhere, before our Glory Year.

 

So yes, his staff may have spotted and coached players well - but in addition he was given time.

 

It doesn't mean PL WILL be a sucess - however any individual defines it (and I must admit it is odd how a Message Board with almost ALL fans saying they expect top 6-8 within a short time is described by some as low expectations when we have NEVER averaged Top 6 over a sustained period ) - but it another example of a patient Board getting a reward.......then look what happened when the impatience started, the glorious 80's !!

 

Any success we have ever had has been when we have stuck with a Manager.

 

Remember where GT finished the year before he got us 2nd ?

 

 

You are bang on Managers do need time, but that time has to be appraised and progress has to be noted. Alex Ferguson had many years but the player progress was being noted behind the scenes, thats why they stuck with him.

 

The progress I'm talking about is individual player progress which if acheived correctly will manifest its way to the kind of progress most on this board are referring to points and league table.....as a famous business person once said "Barbara Hutton" of woolworths fame...."look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves"....meaning get the detail right and the rest will follow.

 

The players are not progressing individually, so how on gods earth are you expected to rise up the league or gain points.....watch the game guys its all there to see.

 

Ps just one small point....arguably, the best team Saunders built was the '77 side, when we finished 4th if we had of had Jimmy Rimmer then in lieu of Budgie we would have won the league.....don't remember that being a poor season..... my point with Saunders was PLAYER PROGRESSION you could see it happening, we were all beside ourselves when Gray Gidman and Deehan left, he just bought withe & Swain, you see in those days excuses were very few and far between....He just got on with it and replaced them....today it would be all tears and how do we replace them.

 

WE HAVE SLEPT WALKED IN TO BECOMING A BUNCH OF DEFEATISTS.

[TRO]

Fat?

 

What a load of tripe.

 Metaphorically speaking not literally.

[lexicon]

Lambert hasn't had a massive budget but has been given funds to spend - the problem really is how far he's had to make that money go with regards to how many players he's had to sign. The overhaul is done now and there is a basis for a team there - next summer and getting a few quality players in rather than 7 affordable bodies should see us in much better stead next season. I'm willing to wait it out but if we haven't improved by next Christmas I'll start to be worried.