TRO Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I accept that Points and league position are crucial to the measurement of progress. but tell me this why is it that just about every top team in Europe play expansive football.....You don't see teams winning trophies playing hoofball or pass the " hot potato". We know where we are and we know who we are, but if we are never going to start to chase a dream of playing the game the right way, we are going to be here in 10 years time having the same conversation... We have to learn from these teams and emulate them not dismiss them as some kind of superior beings.....Did Ron Saunders have pots of money, no but they followed a dream, maybe it was a bit workman like, but it had guile and purpose......and further more his players, improved and you could almost touch and feel it.....All his signings improved at our place, every single one of them. It wasn't the expansive football I talk about, but it was industrious and purposeful and resillient and most of all effective. .....WE HAVE TO CHANGE to progress. This low grade, substandard football has to be dumped. Players should not be able to get in our first team if they can't keep the ball. Edited February 21, 2014 by TRO 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Sacking Lambert at this stage would be utterly moronic. Would you give up building a house quarter way through? Stick together guys and we will be laughing at other clubs in a few years time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle_junior Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Sacking Lambert at this stage would be utterly moronic. Would you give up building a house quarter way through? No, but to be honest, if I'd spotted the builder was making it out of wattle and daub, I'd be seriously thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) What's with the Ron Saunders comparisons?That was a completely different time. Edited February 20, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I accept that Points and league position are crucial to the measurement of progress. but tell me this why is it that just about every top team in Europe play expansive football.....You don't see teams winning trophies playing hoofball or pass the " hot potato". We know where we are and we know who we are, but if we are never going to start to chase a dream of playing the game the right way, we are going to be here in 10 years time having the same conversation... We have to learn from these teams and emulate them not dismiss them as some kind of superior beings.....Did Ron Saunders have pots of money, no but they followed a dream, maybe it was a bit workman like, but it guile and purpose......and further more his players, improved and you could almost touch and feel it.....All his signings improved at our place, every single one of them. It wasn't the expansive football I talk about, but it was industrious and purposeful and resillient and most of all effective. .....WE HAVE TO CHANGE to progress. This low grade, substandard football has to be dumped. Players should not be able to get in our first team if they can't keep the ball. Completely agree and that's why I was supportive of what Houllier was trying to do when he was here. It's the only way to guarantee any kind of sustainable success. I don't mean to say if we did adapt to that philosophy we'd be winning cups or even challenging the top 4 but there's no reason why we couldn't be going for the Europa League spot. That and the football would be much better to watch and we'd win more. We wouldn't be fearing for our Premier League status every bloody season either. It won't be a quick fix by any stretch, but we have a good platform to work off with the wage bill lower. We just need a bit more investment and the right man at the helm. I'm not sure Lambert is the right guy to change our brand of football if I'm honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Sacking Lambert at this stage would be utterly moronic. Would you give up building a house quarter way through? No, but to be honest, if I'd spotted the builder was making it out of wattle and daub, I'd be seriously thinking about it. Maybe the builder was given a tiny budget to assemble the house. Lambert is working within the restrictive conditions set by the board. The anger and disappointment needs to be directed to the board IMO. Sadly keeping us in the division is an achievement, a building block for the future you could say. Edited February 20, 2014 by GENTLEMAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Why do people keep saying Lambert has had a "tiny" budget 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Why do people keep saying Lambert has had a "tiny" budget He has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Why do people keep saying Lambert has had a "tiny" budget He has. Yeah, £43m. Tiny. And before anybody starts on the "he needed a complete new squad" nonsense, he chose to spend it how he wanted. Which was mostly on lower league dross who aren't good enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Half of the problem isn't the transfer fees it's the wages. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Why do people keep saying Lambert has had a "tiny" budget He has. Yeah, £43m. Tiny. And before anybody starts on the "he needed a complete new squad" nonsense, he chose to spend it how he wanted. Which was mostly on lower league dross who aren't good enough. Amid wage restrictions and reducing the overall wage bill, which is conveniently ignored. Lambert's budget is "tiny" and "limiting" compared to other less glamorous clubs, it is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Why do people keep saying Lambert has had a "tiny" budget He has. Yeah, £43m. Tiny. And before anybody starts on the "he needed a complete new squad" nonsense, he chose to spend it how he wanted. Which was mostly on lower league dross who aren't good enough. Amid wage restrictions and reducing the overall wage bill, which is conveniently ignored. Lambert's budget is "tiny" and "limiting" compared to other less glamorous clubs, it is a fact. If he hadn't wasted so much money, he'd have had more to spend. Look at Bennett and Luna, both absolute garbage and no improvement on what we had. Even relatively small fees like Sylla and Bowery is money wasted if they're shite. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 If he hadn't wasted so much money, he'd have had more to spend Not true. Look at Bennett and Luna, both absolute garbage and no improvement on what we had. Even relatively small fees like Sylla and Bowery is money wasted if they're shite. "Absolute garbage" or average? Sylla and Bowery are on peanuts and rarely play, why does it bother you? Besides, Sylla and Bowery contributed last season to us staying up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Why do people keep saying Lambert has had a "tiny" budgetHe has. Yeah, £43m. Tiny. And before anybody starts on the "he needed a complete new squad" nonsense, he chose to spend it how he wanted. Which was mostly on lower league dross who aren't good enough. How is it nonsence? Edited February 20, 2014 by The_Lions_Roar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'd be surprised if more than 50% of managers signings turn out to be classed as a success. The fact that lbert signed so many players in such a short period just highlights them more than usual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'd be surprised if more than 50% of managers signings turn out to be classed as a success. The fact that lbert signed so many players in such a short period just highlights them more than usual. Correct. He needed to make wholesale changes to the squad that he inherited, we were a total mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'd be surprised if more than 50% of managers signings turn out to be classed as a success. The fact that lbert signed so many players in such a short period just highlights them more than usual. Correct. He needed to make wholesale changes to the squad that he inherited, we were a total mess. Last year was just about the biggest mess we'd seen, we were a shambles. Now we're just dismal to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'd be surprised if more than 50% of managers signings turn out to be classed as a success. The fact that lbert signed so many players in such a short period just highlights them more than usual. Correct. He needed to make wholesale changes to the squad that he inherited, we were a total mess. Partly correct. I think three or four of the younger lads could have done the job that Sylla, Tonev, Luna, Bennett, Helenius, Bowery have done just as well. In fact given the limited game time that Helenius and Bowery have had you'd have to question whether they were needed at all. I can't fault the effort of many of Lamberts signing but they are out of their depth. Which is not a total surprise given where they came from. As things stand today I would be surprised if we did anymore than get our money back on a number of his signings. Many have not improved since they arrived, certainly those already mentioned. Others in Lowton and Westwood have not kicked on from a promising end to last season and in the case of Lowton have gone backwards. Lambert wasn't dealt a good hand in terms of the wages he had to spend but that doesn't totally excuse the failings. A mixture of players with potential and players with experience at the top level was required to add a little leadership and nous. Had he have gone for that then I think we'd have found this would have helped the younger lads along in there progression. Three or four less signings/squad fillers instead replaced with a couple of players of proven quality would have made a huge difference. As I have mentioned previously in the summer not signing Tonev, Helenius and Luna and instead signing Gareth Barry would have been far more beneficial to us. We have seen when Vlaar is out we miss not only his defensive qualities but his leadership. It should not be like that. There should be others with that leadership/nous who can step up to the plate. In years gone by when Laurson was out we didn't crumble, when Mellberg was out the same, Southgate, Townsend, Evans, Mortimer, Richardson when they were missing others would step up to the plate and lead from the front. We lack that and have done since Lambert arrived. It needed addressing then and it still needs addressing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'd be surprised if more than 50% of managers signings turn out to be classed as a success. Anything to back that stat up ? Sounds to me like just another sound bite to defend lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Sacking Lambert at this stage would be utterly moronic. Would you give up building a house quarter way through? Stick together guys and we will be laughing at other clubs in a few years time. That's a pretty poor analogy though. If you build a house you hire someone who can build the **** house, and you change carpenters if they aren't showing up on time or doing it wrong. You kind of suggest that he will succeed in the job no matter what if given the time, but you cannot possibly say that at this time. To use your example even further, what about those guys who started to redecorate their house but ten years later there's still an empty room filled with bricks and unused paintbrushes. Equipment they bought cheap of course. Staying with your manager (or CEO if it was a big company) through hardships can be both noble and profitable, but it can also be calamitous - or extremely naive. The decision is of course for qualified people to make, and they don't tend to be sentimental when it comes to these things. Edited February 20, 2014 by Papillon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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