Paul Lambert

[Big_John_10]

The point is anyone who has accepted this season is looking at the long term. They're accepting it as part of a rebuilding plan.

Everyone is looking long term. The difference is not everyone is content with the last two years as part of the building process. I don't believe we needed to experience two relegation worried years, worst home form in clubs history and other record breaking lows in order to rebuild. To accept all that means you don't think it could have been done differently, and to think that IMO means you've got low expectations for the club. Long term we probably all have similar expectations but that doesn't change what's happening now.

But peddling this better fan bollocks is absolute nonsense and needs to be nipped in the bud before this place becomes anymore **** miserable than it is already

I've said its not better fan stuff. I'm sure there are people with these low expectations that go to more games than me, they're better fans than me so their expectations don't effect that. You and a few others have taken it that way.

You know it's bullshit, I know it's bullshit, everyone reading it knows it's bullshit. So do us all a favour and leave it out.

Its not at all, you can repeat it all you want. We've had fans go from mocking people who thought we'd be in a relegation battle to accepting that battle then accepting another and accepting awful football and record breaking lows. You can't get a more clear example of expectations being lowered.

[McGregor1888]

"I don't believe we needed to experience two relegation worried years, worst home form in clubs history and other record breaking lows in order to rebuild. To accept all that means you don't think it could have been done differently..."

 

I think you underestimate the life-experience and the ability to reason of others.

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

John, I'll ask this again, how is expecting a team, who almost got relegated last season, to finish this season between 10th-14th anything other than realistic? How is it lowered expectations? Should we be finishing 8th+?

 

Surely lowered expectations would be accepting that we are relegation fodder and expecting to finish around 16th-17th again. The fact is, we have a bit of a shit team, so it is unrealistic to expect us to finish much higher than 10th.

 

Are fans happy that last season we were in a relegation battle? Hell no. Are fans happy with this season? No, it's been very disappointing. Are the fans happy that some players haven't shown the improvement we thought they would? No.

 

But if going through a few years of shite means that when we get back to where we "should" be we are there for longer than 3 seasons, then I'm fine to battle through for a few rough years.

 

I expect us to be back in and around the top 5/6 within the next 4/5 years, depending where we finish this season, I expect us to be in Southampton's position next season, knocking on the door of the top 8 but likely to not finish higher than 8th.

[markavfc40]

John, I'll ask this again, how is expecting a team, who almost got relegated last season, to finish this season between 10th-14th anything other than realistic? How is it lowered expectations? Should we be finishing 8th+?

 

Surely lowered expectations would be accepting that we are relegation fodder and expecting to finish around 16th-17th again. The fact is, we have a bit of a shit team, so it is unrealistic to expect us to finish much higher than 10th.

 

Are fans happy that last season we were in a relegation battle? Hell no. Are fans happy with this season? No, it's been very disappointing. Are the fans happy that some players haven't shown the improvement we thought they would? No.

 

But if going through a few years of shite means that when we get back to where we "should" be we are there for longer than 3 seasons, then I'm fine to battle through for a few rough years.

 

I expect us to be back in and around the top 5/6 within the next 4/5 years, depending where we finish this season, I expect us to be in Southampton's position next season, knocking on the door of the top 8 but likely to not finish higher than 8th.

 

We would all like to be knocking on the door of top 8 next season but I think you will be disappointed.

 

To do that would take major investment and I don't believe Lerner will provide that. I also now have doubts whether Lambert is the right man to take us forward. There is no doubt a lack of finances hasn't helped but there is no excuse for the tripe we have been served up this season and the horrendous home form during his tenure.

 

In terms of players this current squad is nowhere near good enough to get into the top 8 and needs a total over haul for us to do so. We are totally reliant on four players being fit and in form in Vlaar, Delph, Gabby and Benteke. As much as I rate Delph, Gabby and Ron they would certainly not be the first names on the team sheets of a top 8 side.

 

I expect it to be much of the same next season. Sitting anywhere between 10th and 15th for most of the season and at times crossing our fingers that there are three worse teams than us.

 

I also wouldn’t become too transfixed on where we finish this season as much of a marker as to whether we have progressed or gone backwards. There is a chance that we could finish on less points but a place or two higher than we did last season. That to me shouldn’t be in anyway considered progress. We may also finish on a couple more points but again it would be straw clutching of the highest order to state that we have made progress and we would be kidding ourselves. For me regardless of if we finish on 38 points or 44 points, so 3 points more or less than last season, we will have stood still this season. In terms of performances however as things stand now we have gone backwards.

 

This season has been a huge disappointment given the promise we showed at the back end of last season.

Edited February 20, 2014 by markavfc40

[bobzy]

 

The point is anyone who has accepted this season is looking at the long term. They're accepting it as part of a rebuilding plan.

Everyone is looking long term. The difference is not everyone is content with the last two years as part of the building process. I don't believe we needed to experience two relegation worried years, worst home form in clubs history and other record breaking lows in order to rebuild. To accept all that means you don't think it could have been done differently, and to think that IMO means you've got low expectations for the club. Long term we probably all have similar expectations but that doesn't change what's happening now.

 

 

Most people have been commenting on the long term situation and get this "lowered expectations" garbage.  You're just contradicting yourself now.

 

Also, "lowered expectations" from what exactly?  The European Cup win of '82?  The Premier League changes year on year and it'd be ludicrous to think that every team should stay in exactly the same position forever.  Furthermore, it would be incredibly dull.

[DelboyVilla]

My problem is I don't see anything this year to suggest that we will be challenging for 8th next season, not under the current regime anyway. Both owner and manager.

 

A few weeks ago in January West Ham were in the relegation zone and looking in trouble. Now they are above us on goal difference. A few weeks of losses could see us down towards the bottom 3. We are only 4 points from the relegation spots and 9 points from 9th place. A couple of weeks of bad results and we could be dragged into the mire.

 

From last year we are 4 points better off after 26 games, not really a massive improvement. We were in 17th this time last year and had we got this years points at this stage we would have been 15th in the league. So after spending £20m we are 4 points and 2 places better off. I would say that we have made minimal improvement. If you work on the same figures per point or league place then Lerner needs to spend £45m for points or £50m to get places to take us to 8th.

 

Lambert for me makes baffling decisions at times. Why did we rush out for cover on our back up big man striker, even if it was a loan. However in defence where our best defender is injury prone and potentially our best young defender is out with a long term injury did we not cover this position?

 

And there is still the lack of any creativity in the midfield. This has been glaringly obvious for over 12 months now yet apparently we either can't afford our targets or their current clubs won't sell them to us? I find this hard to comprehend.

 

Then there are the tactics and style of play, we only have one plan A that's it. A hoof from Guzan to a big man be it Benteke, Kozak or Holt. That's our most played pass! I'm expecting Tika Taka ala Barca but a little variation in play wouldn't go amiss?

 

Personally I think Lambert is out of his depth completely and I would look to replace him in the summer and tell him thanks but you've hit your glass ceiling as a manager and we need better to move forward. A bit like MON and his 6th place. Another 12 months of this will see us relegated.

[Hev]

 

This season has been a huge disappointment given the promise we showed at the back end of last season.

 

 

also incude the absolute elation after the first game of the season at Arsenal away - the singing and partying went on outside The Emirates for ages.  I really thought we were in for something good this season.  That's why this season feels such a complete and utter let down and I can't see it getting any better next season (assuming we manage to stay up of course!)

[bobzy]

A few weeks ago in January West Ham were in the relegation zone and looking in trouble. Now they are above us on goal difference. A few weeks of losses could see us down towards the bottom 3. We are only 4 points from the relegation spots and 9 points from 9th place. A couple of weeks of bad results and we could be dragged into the mire.

 

From last year we are 4 points better off after 26 games, not really a massive improvement.

 

Personally I think Lambert is out of his depth completely and I would look to replace him in the summer and tell him thanks but you've hit your glass ceiling as a manager and we need better to move forward. A bit like MON and his 6th place. Another 12 months of this will see us relegated.

 

First point; similarly, a couple of good results and we could be completely away from the mire.  That's generally how winning or losing goes.

 

Second point; so you say that we're making (small) improvements but then also state that another 12 months of this will see us relegated?  Where's the logic?

[Daveburnside]

There is no long term. Its treading water on a championship budget for the foreseeable.

[sne]

 

A few weeks ago in January West Ham were in the relegation zone and looking in trouble. Now they are above us on goal difference. A few weeks of losses could see us down towards the bottom 3. We are only 4 points from the relegation spots and 9 points from 9th place. A couple of weeks of bad results and we could be dragged into the mire.

 

From last year we are 4 points better off after 26 games, not really a massive improvement.

 

Personally I think Lambert is out of his depth completely and I would look to replace him in the summer and tell him thanks but you've hit your glass ceiling as a manager and we need better to move forward. A bit like MON and his 6th place. Another 12 months of this will see us relegated.

 

First point; similarly, a couple of good results and we could be completely away from the mire.  That's generally how winning or losing goes.

 

Second point; so you say that we're making (small) improvements but then also state that another 12 months of this will see us relegated?  Where's the logic?

 

Maybe he fears that the other teams will improve more than us? it's not just up to us where we finish in the league, if the other teams improve or weakens it will effect us. 

[The_Lions_Roar]

We were in a relegation battle under McLeish, you could also argue we were under houllier. So how has 'accepting' being in 2 relegation battles under Lambert lowered expectations?

Surely its just common sense and being realistic?

If you believe it could of been done differently then please explain how as you obviously have inside knowledge on everything at the club.

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

We would all like to be knocking on the door of top 8 next season but I think you will be disappointed.

 

That's your opinion, but I think we have enough in our squad that with a few signings we could challenge Newcastle and Southampton, as these are who I said we'll challenge with, I've not said we'll finish higher than 8th, that's too far out of our reach currently, but we could definitely finish between 10th-8th imo.

 

And also if I'm going to be disappointed with expecting that, how have I got "Low expectations"? (I know you've not said this, just making a point )

 

 

 

To do that would take major investment and I don't believe Lerner will provide that. I also now have doubts whether Lambert is the right man to take us forward. There is no doubt a lack of finances hasn't helped but there is no excuse for the tripe we have been served up this season and the horrendous home form during his tenure.

 

You're right, there is no excuse for some of the performances this season, on the whole it's not been great.

 

I believe we'll get £20m again in the summer, I see no reason why we shouldn't, it's roughly the same Lambert's had to spend the last 2 seasons and the wage bill should be sorted by now. I think if it goes on 3/4 players instead of 8/9 we can really improve the squad, and put us on a similar level to Newcastle and Southampton.

 

Maybe you don't have faith in Lambert, but I'd like to see what he can do now our wage bill should be sorted, and I still have faith we can do well under him. When we appointed him, I wanted stability, he was the 6th person to take charge of our first team in just over 3 years, and that's not good enough. I think he should at least see out his contract.

 

 

 

In terms of players this current squad is nowhere near good enough to get into the top 8 and needs a total over haul for us to do so. We are totally reliant on four players being fit and in form in Vlaar, Delph, Gabby and Benteke. As much as I rate Delph, Gabby and Ron they would certainly not be the first names on the team sheets of a top 8 side.

 

I don't think it would take an overhaul, I think Guzan, Vlaar, Okore, Delph, Gabby, Bertrand*, Benteke and even Weimann and Westwood could all get into Newcastle and Southampton's teams, even some higher up, if played in the right system. There's been a lot of criticism of Gabby recently and it seems people are forgetting he was one of our more important players under MON, when we finished 6th 3 seasons in a row, and I don't think he's gotten much worse since then, so I think it's unfair to say he's not a top 8 player.

 

What we need is the right signings for the rest of our team to excel, we need someone who can do the dirty work instead of Westwood, we need someone who can be relied upon for when Vlaar is injured, and we need someone to provide chances for Benteke/Gabby.

 

As for relying on 4 players, don't most teams? That's the point of building a spine, so you can build a team around it. How many teams would do badly without there "spine"? All but the very best. We have a spine of Guzan, Vlaar, Delph and Benteke/Gabby. Now we need to flesh out the team around it so we can improve.

 

*Assuming we try buy him in the summer.

 

 

 

I expect it to be much of the same next season. Sitting anywhere between 10th and 15th for most of the season and at times crossing our fingers that there are three worse teams than us.

 

Your opinion, but I think you're wrong, I think with the right signings we will not be anywhere near the relegation spots.

 

 

 

I also wouldn’t become too transfixed on where we finish this season as much of a marker as to whether we have progressed or gone backwards. There is a chance that we could finish on less points but a place or two higher than we did last season. That to me shouldn’t be in anyway considered progress. We may also finish on a couple more points but again it would be straw clutching of the highest order to state that we have made progress and we would be kidding ourselves. For me regardless of if we finish on 38 points or 44 points, so 3 points more or less than last season, we will have stood still this season. In terms of performances however as things stand now we have gone backwards.

 

This season has been a huge disappointment given the promise we showed at the back end of last season.

 

I see progression as higher up the table with more points, and nothing less. Even if you don't see it that way, there is progression if that happens, no matter how small. I think if you compare us to last season there has been improvement in some areas. Our defence is much better, we have more goals and points than this point last season, and I still expect us to go on a run similar to last seasons. It has come at the expense of how we play, which is disappointing and frustrating, but I do see progression no matter how small.

 

The season has been disappointing, but then again, I thought we'd finish between 10th-13th, so I can't really be too unhappy, as I didn't really expect more. I'd have hoped we would have had some more good performances this season, but it hasn't happened, and that is very disappointing and frustrating.

[Papillon]

Progression, more points, higher up the table - it's pretty naive to talk about progression when we are looking at the bunch of teams fighting for relegation. We are certainly in the category. Talking about points gained opposed to last season is also irrelevant, especially when it's down to a few points and a few goals. For example; scoring two more goals and nicking two more points compared to the first 26 games last season is not progression, that's looking at things entirely in our favor. Let's play 38 games and then look at the table, that's when we we can obviously talk about the so-called development and progression we have had. Besides, you play the teams you are up against in the league each season, 47 points one season can be better than 52 points in another. Norwich finished on 47 points and in 12th under Paul Lambert, the following year they finished 11th with 44 points under the leadership of Chris Hughton, the latter obviously the better result in the end. Tottenham finished 5th last season with 72 points, in 2011/2012 they finished 4th with 69 points.

 

My point is that we cannot call 12th and 28 points progression up to this point, it doesn't make any sense. Sure had we played like Southampton and grabbed 39 points thus far, it would have been obvious and undeniable for everyone, but right about now we are four points above direct relegation and let's not pretend that is a safe distance. Over 38 games everyone will have met each team twice and the table is clear; we cannot make any conclusions right now and call it progression. It simply isn't, we are exactly where we were last season give or take a few goals in a long, messy algorithm.

[markavfc40]

 

I see progression as higher up the table with more points, and nothing less. Even if you don't see it that way, there is progression if that happens, no matter how small. I think if you compare us to last season there has been improvement in some areas. Our defence is much better, we have more goals and points than this point last season, and I still expect us to go on a run similar to last seasons. It has come at the expense of how we play, which is disappointing and frustrating, but I do see progression no matter how small.

 

The season has been disappointing, but then again, I thought we'd finish between 10th-13th, so I can't really be too unhappy, as I didn't really expect more. I'd have hoped we would have had some more good performances this season, but it hasn't happened, and that is very disappointing and frustrating.

 

 

 

A couple points more than last season and one or two places would be minimal progression I guess. However just as I wouldn't consider us finishing with a couple of points less than last season as us going backwards, unless it results in relegation, I wouldn't class a couple of points more as going forwards. In either scenario I would say we have stood still especially given that a couple of points difference come the end of the season is the difference between a 1-0 win being a 1-1 draw.

 

In terms of going forwards I wish I had your faith. I think the last few seasons has drained the optimism out of me though. After the back end of last season I fully expected us to kick on this season but unless we have a major upturn in form then it won't have happened. This season has been tough going. I haven't missed a home game and have been to a fair few away and much of the stuff we have served up has been embarrassing and not worthy of this great club. It has been tough for me to criticize Lambert as I was desperate for him to be appointed way back since the arse end of Houlliers reign. The reality of what has been served up this last few months though has meant I can no longer bullsh*t myself and others and be making excuses for the inexcusable.

 

Whatever happens I will be at VP next season as this club is ingrained in me and perhaps the summer transfer dealings will give renewed hope. The actions of Lerner though over the past few seasons and the standard of football served up under Lambert means that as things stand I am finding it difficult to see anything other than a season of us again being lower table fodder. That is providing of course we survive this season as I am wary of taking that for granted given our precarious position.

[KjParton]

There is no long term. Its treading water on a championship budget for the foreseeable.

Nice to meet you Mr. Lerner. 

[TRO]

Not one fan will be happy with the last 3 to 4 seasons.

I think where the split/disagreement comes is whether or not you think we are making progress this season to where we should be which, for me at the very least, is top 8 and competing for a top 6 finish.

I don't think we have made any progress at all this season. I expect that to be backed up by us finishing within 2 or 3 points and two to three places either way of where we did last season. We will have stood still in that regard. In terms of what is being served up on the pitch then we will have gone backwards especially in comparison to what we were serving up at the back end of last season.

Many players I expected after finding their feet at the top level last season have either not progressed or have gone backwards. Lowton, Westwood, Sylla, would certainly fall into that category. Benteke has been a shadow of last season for the most part. New arrivals in Luna, Tonev, and at times Bacuna, have looked way out of their depth.

The major, and perhaps the only, positive has been that we have looked much better defensively. Providing of course one injury prone player is fit.

If I had to sum up how this season has gone and looks likely to continue to go then I would say both individually and collectively the personnel and club has stagnated and stood still. I had high hopes we would kick on but we simply haven't. I don't see things getting any better next season either unless the manager gets very good backing financially, spends it wisely and bucks his ideas up in terms of finding a system/style of play that means we can at least hold our own at home. The whole playing side, and perhaps the management and coaching side, needs a complete over haul as quite simply many of them are way out of their depth certainly in terms of making progression back to where I think we should be.

 

Spot as usual

[avfc1982]

The point is anyone who has accepted this season is looking at the long term. They're accepting it as part of a rebuilding plan.

Everyone is looking long term. The difference is not everyone is content with the last two years as part of the building process. I don't believe we needed to experience two relegation worried years, worst home form in clubs history and other record breaking lows in order to rebuild. To accept all that means you don't think it could have been done differently, and to think that IMO means you've got low expectations for the club. Long term we probably all have similar expectations but that doesn't change what's happening now.

 

Most people have been commenting on the long term situation and get this "lowered expectations" garbage.  You're just contradicting yourself now.

 

Also, "lowered expectations" from what exactly?  The European Cup win of '82?  The Premier League changes year on year and it'd be ludicrous to think that every team should stay in exactly the same position forever.  Furthermore, it would be incredibly dull.

When was the last time Villa had 4 relegation battles on the trot?

And you have the nerve to ask about our lowered expectations. I bet Lerner and co are delighted to have fans as passive as you.

[TRO]

 

John, I'll ask this again, how is expecting a team, who almost got relegated last season, to finish this season between 10th-14th anything other than realistic? How is it lowered expectations? Should we be finishing 8th+?

 

Surely lowered expectations would be accepting that we are relegation fodder and expecting to finish around 16th-17th again. The fact is, we have a bit of a shit team, so it is unrealistic to expect us to finish much higher than 10th.

 

Are fans happy that last season we were in a relegation battle? Hell no. Are fans happy with this season? No, it's been very disappointing. Are the fans happy that some players haven't shown the improvement we thought they would? No.

 

But if going through a few years of shite means that when we get back to where we "should" be we are there for longer than 3 seasons, then I'm fine to battle through for a few rough years.

 

I expect us to be back in and around the top 5/6 within the next 4/5 years, depending where we finish this season, I expect us to be in Southampton's position next season, knocking on the door of the top 8 but likely to not finish higher than 8th.

 

We would all like to be knocking on the door of top 8 next season but I think you will be disappointed.

 

To do that would take major investment and I don't believe Lerner will provide that. I also now have doubts whether Lambert is the right man to take us forward. There is no doubt a lack of finances hasn't helped but there is no excuse for the tripe we have been served up this season and the horrendous home form during his tenure.

 

In terms of players this current squad is nowhere near good enough to get into the top 8 and needs a total over haul for us to do so. We are totally reliant on four players being fit and in form in Vlaar, Delph, Gabby and Benteke. As much as I rate Delph, Gabby and Ron they would certainly not be the first names on the team sheets of a top 8 side.

 

I expect it to be much of the same next season. Sitting anywhere between 10th and 15th for most of the season and at times crossing our fingers that there are three worse teams than us.

 

I also wouldn’t become too transfixed on where we finish this season as much of a marker as to whether we have progressed or gone backwards. There is a chance that we could finish on less points but a place or two higher than we did last season. That to me shouldn’t be in anyway considered progress. We may also finish on a couple more points but again it would be straw clutching of the highest order to state that we have made progress and we would be kidding ourselves. For me regardless of if we finish on 38 points or 44 points, so 3 points more or less than last season, we will have stood still this season. In terms of performances however as things stand now we have gone backwards.

 

This season has been a huge disappointment given the promise we showed at the back end of last season.

 

 

I only have to watch each match on a game to game basis to know we are not progressing.Each individual player has not improved bar a few exceptions....thats a worry for me.

 I hear all the arguments about lack of finance and essentially i agree, but many other managers have made a better fist of small budgets.

 

I have no confidence that with better finance e will be any better off....because my fear is it will not be spent wisely.....I see Deja Vu staring me in the face.

[TRO]

 

 

 

The point is anyone who has accepted this season is looking at the long term. They're accepting it as part of a rebuilding plan.

Everyone is looking long term. The difference is not everyone is content with the last two years as part of the building process. I don't believe we needed to experience two relegation worried years, worst home form in clubs history and other record breaking lows in order to rebuild. To accept all that means you don't think it could have been done differently, and to think that IMO means you've got low expectations for the club. Long term we probably all have similar expectations but that doesn't change what's happening now.

 

Most people have been commenting on the long term situation and get this "lowered expectations" garbage.  You're just contradicting yourself now.

 

Also, "lowered expectations" from what exactly?  The European Cup win of '82?  The Premier League changes year on year and it'd be ludicrous to think that every team should stay in exactly the same position forever.  Furthermore, it would be incredibly dull.

When was the last time Villa had 4 relegation battles on the trot?

And you have the nerve to ask about our lowered expectations. I bet Lerner and co are delighted to have fans as passive as you.

 

 

There is something really poignant about that.

 

we are not here to win the best fan award.... we should be trying to get the team off its arse....and not accept so readily, sub standard.

[Villastine]

 

Not one fan will be happy with the last 3 to 4 seasons.

I think where the split/disagreement comes is whether or not you think we are making progress this season to where we should be which, for me at the very least, is top 8 and competing for a top 6 finish.

I don't think we have made any progress at all this season. I expect that to be backed up by us finishing within 2 or 3 points and two to three places either way of where we did last season. We will have stood still in that regard. In terms of what is being served up on the pitch then we will have gone backwards especially in comparison to what we were serving up at the back end of last season.

Many players I expected after finding their feet at the top level last season have either not progressed or have gone backwards. Lowton, Westwood, Sylla, would certainly fall into that category. Benteke has been a shadow of last season for the most part. New arrivals in Luna, Tonev, and at times Bacuna, have looked way out of their depth.

The major, and perhaps the only, positive has been that we have looked much better defensively. Providing of course one injury prone player is fit.

If I had to sum up how this season has gone and looks likely to continue to go then I would say both individually and collectively the personnel and club has stagnated and stood still. I had high hopes we would kick on but we simply haven't. I don't see things getting any better next season either unless the manager gets very good backing financially, spends it wisely and bucks his ideas up in terms of finding a system/style of play that means we can at least hold our own at home. The whole playing side, and perhaps the management and coaching side, needs a complete over haul as quite simply many of them are way out of their depth certainly in terms of making progression back to where I think we should be.

 

Spot as usual

 

You cannot judge Lambert & Villa in isolation.

Look at the teams above & around us last season.

Swansea, West Brom, West Ham, Norwich, and Fulham have all regressed.

If I accept your take on our current position then you could say that us, Stoke and Sunderland are in pretty much the same shape as last year.

Southampton and Newcastle (pre Cabaye sale) have improved.

The first group, bar Norwich, have all sacked their managers. Sunderland, Stoke and Southampton have also changed managers since last season.  

Southampton are the only club who seem to have improved as a result. They are an outlier. Obviously the quality of their young players and the continued investment is reaping dividends as much as the change of manager. And after all of that they are still not a million miles away from us.

Sacking Lambert would be similar to Stoke sacking Pulis……pointless.