Stevo985 Posted August 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, darrenm said: My biggest problem was the physics of how the chains run against the edge of ice sheet to pull a dragon out of the water just doesn't work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 16 minutes ago, darrenm said: My biggest problem was the physics of how the chains run against the edge of ice sheet to pull a dragon out of the water just doesn't work. The physics are established in the show as being pretty close to ours. People don't just float around so there's gravity, dragons soar and flap wings so air is consistent, fire burns, light is light, dark is dark, so the world is created like ours with added fantasy magic and your disbelief is suspended. So they can't just go and say 'actually that's all bullshit. The physics are the physics until they're not.' Very poor writing. If GRRM was still writing it, it wouldn't happen like that. Yeah, I agree with you. I just thought that there was a lot of stuff about the episode that was much, much, much worse. It was amongst the least of its worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Wouldn't the icy water have made the chains brittle? I DEMAND ANSWERS! I really hate the whole Stark girls story at the moment. They've both been through shit - Talk it out rather than jumping at each others throats instantly. The less said about Bran the better. I hate how characters just become non existent for long periods until a major plot point. Definitely should have made the series the usual 10 episodes long and put some filler stuff in there for development. Also, I almost raged when I thought Tormund was doomed. Tormund/Hound banter was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Wouldn't the icy water have made the chains brittle? I DEMAND ANSWERS! I really hate the whole Stark girls story at the moment. They've both been through shit - Talk it out rather than jumping at each others throats instantly. The less said about Bran the better. I hate how characters just become non existent for long periods until a major plot point. Definitely should have made the series the usual 10 episodes long and put some filler stuff in there for development. Also, I almost raged when I thought Tormund was doomed. Tormund/Hound banter was great. Cough Theon cough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Dante_Lockhart said: I hate how characters just become non existent for long periods until a major plot point. Definitely should have made the series the usual 10 episodes long and put some filler stuff in there for development. Agreed, except, it wouldn't be filler, there's enough gaps to drive a fleet of buses through. In the previous 2 series, I've moaned that the pace is glacial and they need to get a move on, so maybe they can't win, but it does very much seem to have gone from one extreme to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 They've got enough time to put erection jokes in by Davos on the beach but not enough time to show Bran wheeling around Winterfell being weird, or Podrick dialogue, or Theon coping with abandoning his sister, or mother **** Euron trying to get in Cersei's pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 22, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 22, 2017 I relented and watched. I enjoyed it and yes there were a few wtf moments but actually, this article in Joe has some interesting theories as to some of the "holes" people are talking about ... Thar be spoilers ahead. Spoiler Linkings NOTE : You'll have to click the link above to get the associated (and important to the article ...) pictures and clips. Otherwise below lacks context. Undead 1-0 Living. That's how the score looks as the first battle in the Great War has been fought and the Night King has already secured the most deadly weapon imaginable, an ice dragon. We've speculated about Viserion's powers and future here, but if you thought that the army of the dead were just mindless zombies then think again. Not only can the Night King summon the dead, walk through fire and throw a spear in a way that would make an Olympic javelin gold-medalist jealous, he's also more powerful than we can even comprehend. If you read the recent theory about Bran and the Night King then you'll know that there's a strong connection between the two, but the most recent episode has provided evidence that the leader of the White Walkers is far more formidable than first feared. Did anyone else get the feeling that the Night King was very prepared for the battle against Jon Snow's suicide squad? Jon's raid beyond the Wall was supposed to be a surprise, but it sure didn't feel like it. Cast your mind back to the most recent episode, Eastwatch, and the scene when Bran has warged into the ravens that are travelling beyond the Wall in a bid to spy on the Night King's activity. During that scene, we get a glimpse at the army of the dead as they're all gathered around one specific location. Look familiar? Yep, that's exactly where Jon Snow and his men had to make their desperate last stand against the dead. Yes, that's right. Jon Snow was led into a trap by the Night King and he walked right into it. Simply put, the Night King was prepared for battle. He knew the terrain. He knew how to trap Jon Snow's men and he knew exactly what was coming. Simply put, there's a strong chance that the Night King is a greenseer because just like the Three-Eyed Raven, he can see the future. The Night King's entire plan revolved around waiting for Daenerys and her dragons to arrive - Viserion being the target. Once Dany's dragon was within shot, game over. After reviving the dragon to be his steed, we're guessing that his intentions are now solely focused on the Wall. Is this why the Night King has been waiting for so long before heading south? Is this why we haven't seen that much of a threat from the undead since Hardhome? Do you think those wights held back from attacking Jon, Jorah, The Hound etc purely because the ice was frozen? Surely the Night King could have ordered his undead minions to form some kind of skeletal body bridge if he truly wanted to kill Jon. Hell, we've seen these wights throw themselves off the edge of a cliff at Hardhome in a bid to kill. One tiny gap of water wouldn't stop them and as we saw in the episode, even when they fell into the water, they still continued to fight. Tormund only barely made it out of his encounter with them alive. It;'s worth noting that the Night King also managed to kill a dragon from an extraordinary distance and he nearly did it again after narrowly missing Drogon. Jon and his party were stationery and isolated on a rock, they were weak and ready to be picked off. Sitting ducks, a perfect opportunity to kill. No, the leader of the White Walkers waited until Dany and her dragons were distracted by their rescue operation before striking. Jon was the bait and Viserion was the prize. Need further proof? The Night King even managed to warg into that wight which Jon and his men captured and held on that rock in the middle of the frozen lake. Basically, the Night King was spying on everything that Jon and his men were saying. One burning question remains though. When it came to attacking a dragon, Drogon was closer to the Night King than Viserion was. Why didn't he throw his ice javelin at the easier target? Well, if Drogon was attacked, it's very likely that Jon, The Hound, Beric, Jorah etc would be forced to make a desperate last stand against the Night King. Beric Dondarrion made an interesting observation that when a White Walker is killed, the wights they create will immediately die as well. “Kill him,” Beric says, pointing toward the Night King. By killing the Night King, the entire army of the dead would die also. If Drogon was killed, Jon, Dany and co would be left without an immediate 'getaway' dragon and would therefore have no other option but to stand and fight. For the Night King, is it worth taking that risk? As Tyrion previously pointed out to Daenerys, a smart ruler doesn't get their hands dirty in combat. The Night King is incredibly smart. No, he decided to play the long game and bide his time until the perfect moment to strike. Also, did anyone else wonder why the White Walker generals were equipped with ice javelins and a gigantic chain to fish Viserion out of the frozen lake? Ok, it's possible that a few days had passed before Viserion was retrieved from the frozen lake - but it's far more likely that they came to that battle prepared. In Game of Thrones, we've already seen that people with greensight can interact with Bran during his visions. The blood raven (Max Von Sydow - the previous incarnation of the 'Three-Eyed Raven) has frequently made physical contact with Bran in his visions and the Night King has already 'marked' Bran. When Bran spied on the Night King, why do you think those ravens scattered as soon as he made eye contact? The Night King knows how to spot Bran during his warging visions. It's exactly how he found him in that cave before Hodor died. We also know that the Night King was created by the Children of the Forest and it's clear that he has magical properties - hell, he can raise the dead and control an army of wights with his warg-like powers. The really scary part is yet to come, he can also cause mini earthquakes and the ground to rupture (1:20) If this theory is true, then not only is the Night King a formidable physical threat - he can spear a dragon, handle himself in combat and raise the dead - but he can also see glimpses of the future, just like Bran. We're frequently told that the Wall isn't just a bunch of compact ice and that it's protected by magic too. Somehow, we've a feeling that the Night's Watch are about to face a fight that's impossible to win. Winter is definitely here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Scenes from next episode leaked. Spoiler 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, sne said: Scenes from next episode leaked. Hide contents Spoiler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponky Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I was pretty pissed off when Tormund was getting mauled and bit by white walkers, thinking "great, now he's going to turn". Then I realised, wrong show! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogso Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) I am enjoying reading the conflicting comments about various plot holes, and reactions to them. There are certainly things I hadn't considered immediately. I'm on the side of disregarding them and trying to enjoy the show in spite of the issues because of what the show has become, rather than what the show was. I would say it's become a victim of it's own success in that the writers and producers want to give the many millions of fans what they want, while also arriving at the key plot points, and they're clearly cutting corners to do so - but with this level of fandom comes extra scrutiny, and frankly some of the stuff pulled in the last episode would look absurd in a low budget fantasy show with viewers in the hundreds of thousands, let alone hundreds of millions (?). I'm not ashamed to say that I will continue to overlook future problems (I'm sure there will be some similar to those of the latest episode) if the pay off is as spectacular as I hope it will be. I'm still hooked and at this point I don't think anything will stop my enjoyment of the show. The corner cutting does make me extra curious about how the story is really going to arrive at the point we're at now, and who will be involved, and how. How long til those books are out again, George...? I do wonder as well if they'll pull an anime style get out (maybe not proper Full Metal Alchemist-esque re-do the whole thing, though) and re-make a final series after all the books are out, so they can match the events laid out in those. It's highly improbable of course, but you never know. Maybe a movie? Edited August 22, 2017 by hogso 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted August 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) I think it will end with Jon and Dany getting married, then Bran shows up to reveal that they're related, and they simultaneously facepalm and the show cuts to black ending with rock and roll music. Edited August 22, 2017 by villarule123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 If Arya kills Littlefinger and takes his face, what accent will she use? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22, 2017 24 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: If Arya kills Littlefinger and takes his face, what accent will she use? "Bonjour and top ah the mornin' to be sure. Quite, now pass me my coat fine fellow, yah yellah belly vermin" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 18 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: "Bonjour and top ah the mornin' to be sure. Quite, now pass me my coat fine fellow, yah yellah belly vermin" Bit like this then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I know Martin has supposedly told them what would happen but I do wonder if this is what he had in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, Zatman said: I know Martin has supposedly told them what would happen but I do wonder if this is what he had in mind Martin is supposed to have told them how it ends but not how it gets there iirc. I'd be astonished if he actually writes a similar journey to the end. Even accounting for the rushing, they might touch similar points but I think they'll be quite different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted August 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) I cannot wait for the books to be finished. I like where the story is going in the show, my dislike is the time travelling. The book won't be rushed (in more ways than one ) and will give the most satisfying ending. Where the **** is Winds of Winter?? Edited August 22, 2017 by villarule123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 At Hardhome the Night King just raised his arms in the air to raise hundreds of the dead. If he just stood by the edge of the water and did the same and then the dragon flew out of the lake nobody would have raised an eye The chains were a complete maguffin to make Jon's escape slightly more plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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