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JB

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  1. “By the way I think most people are right...” “I know a lot of Tory MPs and ... the public is basically correct.”
  2. I’m not sure what the odds were but Wales were 6 Nations champions and ranked above England. They’d developed such a knack of winning tight games that they were pretty well-fancied. Ah that’s not quite what I said . I said that the idea of England fans being arrogant is exaggerated. Like most stereotypes, there’s an element of truth (plenty of rah-rah types follow the ‘rugger’) but because of it, I think things get twisted or highlighted in a way that they wouldn’t with other nations. My point was that when viewed objectively, I’d be pretty confident in saying that the English aren’t any more or less arrogant than fans of countries of similar or greater success levels. Maybe I’m just being naturally defensive and I’m blind to it but I’ve never seen any evidence of English arrogance that I haven’t seen from other nations. The idea was formed a bit before my time so I’m open to the possibility that there was more of a basis for it before the sport became a bit more diverse. I’d agree about the self-deprecation from many of the Welsh fans. I’ve had plenty of great times watching international rugby in Wales with Welsh friends and my father/brothers-in-law. I’ve been called an English word removed for no reason but I’ve also been bought a pint by guys I’ve got chatting to during a game.
  3. That’s a good post. I thinks it’s a really interesting discussion so thanks for not being an arse about it . That said, there are a few things I would take issue with. I think Villa/SHA is a good analogy but England aren’t the stronger side in the overwhelming way that Villa are. If anything, Wales are based on achievements over the past 12 years. There have been countless games between the two in that time where England have gone in as underdogs and all I’ve heard from the Welsh media and fans is how they’re going to ‘smash’ us. It seems that whenever you ask someone about their hatred for the English it always comes back to arrogance. I think the idea of arrogance of the English rugby collective is overblown. I think it’s a stereotype and it’s a case of if you look for it hard enough you will find it, which an element of the Welsh support certainly do. I would say that the English are no more arrogant than the Welsh. It’s impossible to measure and highly subjective and we’re always likely to see it more in our opposition. I posted a picture earlier in the thread before Wales’s semi final where there was a headline story about how Wales were going to beat England in the final, underneath of which was an article about the arrogance of the English media. That would’ve gone viral if it was the other way around. I think using the media as a barometer of public feeling is always a terrible idea. England were largely in the doldrums post-2003. I’d argue that expectations have never been particularly high during that time. You’ve used my post earlier in this thread where I said that I had a feeling we would win the final as an example. I’ve found that a lot - as an England supporter it seems as if you are not allowed to have any sort of confidence without it being labelled as arrogance. It was merely my prediction based on what I’d seen throughout the tournament. It turns out that it was spectacularly wrong - but did I not also suggest that I was having doubts? And in an even earlier post, I predicted that we would most likely lose to the All Blacks. Do I have to flat out predict we’re going to lose otherwise it’s arrogance? It seems that what Welsh supporters label as self belief when it comes to their own team (which they are not short of), is obnoxious arrogance when it comes to England. I find that quite often English words and actions are twisted to find the most negative meaning behind anything that is said or done. As an example, Farrell’s ‘smirk’ - arrogance or self-belief/relishing the challenge? We both know that if that had been AWJ he’d have been universally labelled as a legend. If the English did half the stuff that the Welsh do there would be an absolute shitstorm. I’ve watched England games in bars in Cardiff and heard some horrendous shit. I’ve also experienced some pretty shitty stuff that’s nothing to do with rugby but that’s not for this thread. That the English are more arrogant than any of the other nations really doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
  4. Sorry, you’ll have to run that by me again. I don’t quite get what you mean. Fair enough, you might have a point there. Maybe I am a bit. I’ll hold my hands up and say that it’s one of those things that pisses me off more than it should. It’s ground me down a bit over the years of living here.
  5. Ah see, that’s what’s a lot of people say - “An English person was a word removed to me once - it’s just banter”. Yes, there are undoubtedly proportionately just as many English dick heads but there’s not the obsession that there is with a lot of Welsh people. It’s not banter - it’s almost a belief system. There’s a genuine dislike for the English and the pleasure they derive from our failure is ridiculous. I’ve lived in Wales for years now and I’ve seen some shit. Stuff like the story I posted above is not uncommon. The dynamic between SHA/Villa is a decent comparison (only without the huge disparity in achievement). It’s stoked by infantile tabloid shit like Wales Online which always has stories about England being baddies on there. It’s front page after the match today had three stories about England on there - one about England not wearing their silver medals and another about Sports Direct printing World Cup winner t-shirts. Genuine apologies if this sounds patronising, but you can’t really understand it until you’ve seen it first hand or when you only have my clumsy attempts at explaining it. All of the sound Welsh people I know (the majority) find it embarrassing but, just as is the case everywhere, the average person on the street is a moron. Anyway, I’ve now got the Villa result to compound my depression!
  6. Shared by a work colleague on Facebook (yes, it was my mistake going on there). Pathetic words removed. Makes it all the more gutting that they’re getting so much pleasure from this. I’ve got to go to work on Monday and be surrounded by people who’ve done similar, sharing Springbok gifs, changing profile pictures etc. and will be as happy as if they’d actually won the World Cup. Sub-SHA level.
  7. I agree with you but I’m not sure that’s true in this instance. I think that England definitely lost the psychological battle in this game. They were incredibly nervous and the occasion got the better of them. I agree that ‘bottlers’ is a very harsh label and it’s not one that I think I’d go as far as using on this occasion but there were aspects of that performance that made it a textbook example. If we’d been more competitive then the reaction would be a lot more sympathetic. As I said before, England rugby has form in falling at the final hurdle with a whimper over the past 16 years.
  8. I agree to an extent but as I said above, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. SA undoubtedly monstered us. Their forwards were unplayable at times but we looked nervous from the start. We didn’t fire a shot and didn’t even do the basics right. Our scrum half couldn't even pass FFS. Heads dropped and you could tell from the body language after 5 minutes that they were beaten men. Also, the semi final and final are obviously different games. An awesome performance in the semi final doesn’t mean that we didn’t bottle it in the final. England rugby team have a history of that sort of thing on the biggest occasions over the past 16 years.
  9. **** off with that shit. What a load of bollocks.
  10. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. SA monstered us but we didn’t do the basics right. England also have a history for undoubtedly bottling it.
  11. Some Welsh already being words removed on social media, as if they’ve won the World Cup. SHA levels of obsessed.
  12. Just absolutely, massively gutted. It’s been an utterly **** minging game. I’m not sure how much is South Africa strangling us (their forwards have been unplayable) and how much is to do with our nerves/not turning up (our body language has been shocking - we’ve looked like beaten men) but we’re never going to shake the bottlers tag.
  13. Huge 5-10 minutes after half time. If we don’t front up then we’re done. Have to say, as much as we’re being outmuscled, it also looks like we’re bottling it. So many misplaced passes and other basic errors.
  14. Youngs having an absolute stinker.
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