Woodytom Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Just now, StefanAVFC said: Nice try, but nope. Yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) i agree our academy has been slowly unravelling over the last five years and I have started to lose faith in our ability to produce home grown players. I have had moments where i've thought Green and RHM looked very average, but i've also seen moments of pace and skill that have made me sit up and take notice. Until I have seen both start a few games it's hard to judge, I would have thought both should go out on loan though to get a bit of polish and experience. But that prob won't happen till we start winning games i.e. never. Edited September 30, 2016 by VillanousOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof hearted Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, VillanousOne said: i agree our academy has been slowly unravelling over the last five years and I have started to lose faith in our ability to produce home grown players. I have had moments where i've thought Green and RHM looked very average, but i've also seen moments of pace and skill that have made me sit up and take notice. Until I have seen both start a few games it's hard to judge, I would have thought both should go out on loan though to get a bit of polish and experience. But that prob won't happen till we start winning games i.e. never. I think Hepburn-Murphy isn't too far off a starting berth, he looked sharp when he came on against Newcastle. Andre seems to have dropped down the pecking order after a decent pre-season though. Agreed about the last five years or so though, can't think off the top of my head of anyone who has broken into the squad let alone the first team in that time. Feel free to put me right though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 32 minutes ago, Woodytom said: Wayne Rooney signed for man utd at 18. Ashley young and James milner were in their twenties when he signed for us. Not sure what your point is regarding cahill. Sure we will have had some effect on him but my question was who have we developed from youth into something worth talking about whilst at villa in the last decade. My overall point is that the club's system in place for transition from youth to senior is absolutely appalling. But Andre Green is 18 - or is 17 your cut off point for development? Does it only count if the player has been at the club since the age of, say, 14 or younger too? My point on Cahill is exactly the same as it is for Ashley Young and James Milner (young in particular IMO) - signed later on in their development, but nowhere near the player they became. Young was bought as a talented youngster (maybe 22/23?) from Watford and developed into a player that became both integral and exciting for us, but also an England international and went on to move to Man Utd. To me, that's a player we developed and was worth talking about. However, he didn't start at Villa until early twenties, as you say. So is the point you're making that not many players who start at the club around the age of, say, 12-14 or younger go on to be regular Villa players? If so, I doubt (and am happy to be proved wrong!) that many players do this at any club in the Premier League or Championship. I think Harry Kane may be the only player over the last 10 years that has been fully developed at his club and is worth talking about? Jack Grealish is probably as close as it comes otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 4 hours ago, Woodytom said: What so all players who have England caps and cl experience are above average? Err . . . yes. By miles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 6 hours ago, Woodytom said: What so all players who have England caps and cl experience are above average? If a player who was a mainstay in a team that won the CL + the national team for years isn't considered above average, then who is? No wonder you think every player is shit if the bar is so high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney_avfc Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Hoof hearted said: I think Hepburn-Murphy isn't too far off a starting berth, he looked sharp when he came on against Newcastle. Andre seems to have dropped down the pecking order after a decent pre-season though. Agreed about the last five years or so though, can't think off the top of my head of anyone who has broken into the squad let alone the first team in that time. Feel free to put me right though! Mr Jack Grealish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Hoof hearted said: I think Hepburn-Murphy isn't too far off a starting berth, he looked sharp when he came on against Newcastle. Andre seems to have dropped down the pecking order after a decent pre-season though. Agreed about the last five years or so though, can't think off the top of my head of anyone who has broken into the squad let alone the first team in that time. Feel free to put me right though! He is miles away, despite his admirable efforts against Newcastle he looked like a head chicken and massively undersized. Long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 an undersized head chicken makes me want a KFC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: If a player who was a mainstay in a team that won the CL + the national team for years isn't considered above average, then who is? No wonder you think every player is shit if the bar is so high. Emile heskey played many games for England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Just now, Woodytom said: Emile heskey played many games for England. And he no doubt was an above average player for the majority of his time with England. It was really only in his inexplicable 2010 WC campaign that he wasn't. Anyway, are you arguing that Gary Cahill is not above average? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 23 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Anyway, are you arguing that Gary Cahill is not above average? No. I was basically saying that playing in the champs league or for England didn't guarantee that you are above average. There's been some pretty horrible players play champs league football. El ahmadi currently plays it. Mike newell bagged a hat trick once. And it just goes to show that my point of our development of players being shocking stands up....... years and years of promising young players who were the best team in Europe at a certain age, thrashed arsenal 10-1 etc, yet the only real successes that ppl can quote are Gary cahill who left nearly a decade ago and Marc Albrighton...... Both of whom improved when they left villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Just now, Woodytom said: No. I was basically saying that playing in the champs league or for England didn't guarantee that you are above average. There's been some pretty horrible players play champs league football. El ahmadi currently plays it. Mike newell bagged a hat trick once. And it just goes to show that my point of our development of players being shocking stands up....... years and years of promising young players who were the best team in Europe at a certain age, thrashed arsenal 10-1 etc, yet the only real successes that ppl can quote are Gary cahill who left nearly a decade ago and Marc Albrighton...... Both of whom improved when they left villa. I mean being a regular in a team that does well in the CL is definitely an indication. You forget that Cahill won the competition too. Not only that, but he won the league just 2 seasons ago, and Albrighton did it last season. I think that is testament to how bad the first team setup is as it routinely stifles the development of most of our youngsters instead of being indicative of our youth players. It's poisonous. It even made a clearly superb player in Gana look distinctly average last season and he has plenty of first team experience. Imagine what it does to young academy players. I'm sure players like Grealish or Gardner (if he had more luck with injuries) would have developed further if they came into Southampton's first team for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: I think that is testament to how bad the first team setup is as it routinely stifles the development of most of our youngsters instead of being indicative of our youth players. It's poisonous. It even made a clearly superb player in Gana look distinctly average last season and he has plenty of first team experience. Imagine what it does to young academy players. I'm sure players like Grealish or Gardner (if he had more luck with injuries) would have developed further if they came into Southampton's first team for example. And that is half the reason I don't expect much from the likes of Green. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 9 hours ago, Woodytom said: Ok, il change it to at the very best they become run of the mill average players unless they move to other clubs where the coaching staff are clearly better than villas. Name a player in the last 10 years who have come through the ranks and developed into a player worth talking about....Whilst at villa. So far, andre hasn't shown me anything that suggests he will be any different. So many times we hear ppl saying 'that's it write him off after 1 game'. More often than not, the person writing them off has been absolutely spot on. Would have to say Gabby 2006-10. If we'd sold him in summer 2010 for example we'd have got a similar transfer fee to Milner imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 13 hours ago, Woodytom said: Name a player in the last 10 years who have come through the ranks and developed into a player worth talking about....Whilst at villa. because we had shit management Davis, Cahill, Albrighton, Gardner would be good in our team and even Gabby has had a good top flight career since he is our top scorer in Premier League history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof hearted Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 22 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: He is miles away, despite his admirable efforts against Newcastle he looked like a head chicken and massively undersized. Long way to go. In your opinion of course* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Robinson and Johnson looked decent today 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 26 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Robinson and Johnson looked decent today Outstanding talents who shouldn't have been allowed to leave the football club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanwesty88 Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 I hope Green gets some game time soon. Get him out on loan if not. We can't let our talents rot away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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