The Tim Sherwood Thread

[HanoiVillan]

The knives are out on Heroes and Villains too, BTW

If he is still here for Chelsea and we lose 4-0, will that seal it?

 

Sherwood, out.

 

And Lerner can **** off too.

Honestly, this surprises me, Maq. I always think of you as one of the more level-headed cats around here, so if Sherwood's lost you, well, that ain't good. 

Call me a pollyanna, but I still think people need to get a grip. Sherwood's had a rough start, but he's still not remotely close to the worst in the annals of loser managers at AVFC. Not even close. 

I don't think Lerner or Fox give a flying fugg about what we fans think, not when it comes to the the bottom line.

What WILL make them move is bad press. If Sherwood gets serious heat in the Birmingham or national press, he's gone.

Lerner doesn't like bad press. 

The press won't have much to do with it, and the local press will have nothing at all to do with it. 

As always, it boils down to a business and personal decision on the part of those in charge. Weighing against sacking him is:

a] he gets a huge, huge payout,

b] it's an admission of a mistake in choosing to employ him in the first place,

c] he might turn it around, and

d] it gives the impression that it's an 'unmanageable' club.

Weighing in favour of sacking him is

e] our historically low points tally at this stage of the season,

f] our situation in the league table, already adrift of safety by some margin, with nearly 25% of the season gone, 

g] the dire financial consequences for the Chairman if we go down, and

h] the increasing disillusionment of the fans (definitely the least important).

Arguments A-D have been stronger up to this point, but arguments E-G are rapidly gaining ground and may have overtaken A-D. You need to understand the importance of G, in particular. Lerner isn't interested in this football club. He's been formally trying to sell it for more than 18 months, and it was an open secret that it was informally up for sale for at least a couple of years before that. He wants to get rid of us as quickly as possible, but he isn't going to take a bath on our sale price, and relegation would instantly wipe about £100m off the value of the club.  

As for Tom Fox, it would probably be a little bit humiliating sacking Timmy, but he'll get over it. Firstly, the boss might force him. Secondly, he's the not the first CEO to ditch a manager after a few months in post. It wasn't much later than this that Palace sacked Warnock and Albion sacked Irvine last season, and they had only been in place since the summer. Eventually, the evidence becomes too persuasive to ignore. It will do in this case, simply because we're likely to lose all of our next 5 or 6 fixtures as well, while others move further ahead of us. The hope is that arguments E-G have already won the day, but make no mistake, they will win soon enough. 

[Villarocker]

Eva Carneiro is a good shout. I'd bet a year's salary that she wouldn't have any problem getting the lads to play under her! 

[Villarocker]

Other reasons for not sacking him:

1) His staff might have to go too, with pay-offs. 

2) It might cost us compensation to get a replacement. 

3) These are mostly Sherwood's players. Another gaffer might not be able to work with them or vice versa. 

[Harry]

I've a feeling Moyes will be available soon.  Not great but id take Eva Carnerio at this stage.

I'd take Eva any day of the week......sorry I wasn't taking about our next manager.

Moyes would be a great shout, Lerner would finally get the man he has coveted for so long.

[rodders0223]

Other reasons for not sacking him:

1) His staff might have to go too, with pay-offs. 

2) It might cost us compensation to get a replacement. 

3) These are mostly Sherwood's players. Another gaffer might not be able to work with them or vice versa. 

 

Well Shewod clearly can't work with them.

[Harry]

The worrying thing for me is nowhere is the media is there any suggestion that his position might be under threat.

I would not worry too much about Fox being concerned about sacking Sherwood too quickly. A CEO is not employed to be sentimental, he is employed to make tough decisions and Fox strikes me as a man well capable of making such decisions.

 

[HanoiVillan]

Other reasons for not sacking him:

1) His staff might have to go too, with pay-offs. 

2) It might cost us compensation to get a replacement. 

3) These are mostly Sherwood's players. Another gaffer might not be able to work with them or vice versa. 

Your points 1 & 2 are true, though they're basically the same as my point A - let's make that broader, 'the financial costs of sacking him'. 

Your point 3 should be a nonsense. These players are professional footballers. This is their career. They're not students in the Dead Poets Society FFS. Any player who finds himself unable to play for another manager is of course welcome to show himself to the door. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

I'd getting fed up of British managers to be honest, although I guess on balance Moyes and Allardyce are decent shouts. Moyes would be my preference. 

[DeadlyDirk]

I'm going to try and let my head rule my heart here, not vice versa!

The evidence is that it's clear he doesn't have a clue, changing from 3 centrebacks to 2 half way through a game, when one of those players is playing his first premier league game is yet another example in the growing catalogue of cock up this manager has made, the goal against clearly shows it with the centre backs being too far apart. 

Refusing to play his strongest team from the start is another shocker.

When I saw the line up today my immediate thought was "He's panicking and he doesn't know what to do".

Playing ultra defensive at home to a Stoke side that hasn't won away all season is baffling. We're the home side, we should be taking the game to them.

His constant re-jigging of the tactics, formation and shape every 45 minutes is not going to help a team of largely new players settle and get into a rhythm with each other, all it will do is have a de-stablilising effect, result in poor results.

It's almost as if he's trying to figure out how to play Football Manager.

There's too many previous errors that he's made to suggest that he even has a clue about how to manage a premier league football club. His post match interviews are scatty at best, he changes his opinions on why we lost far too much.

This man is displaying traits that suggest to me he's not quite the full shilling, believes in his own inflated ego with a few psychotic traits and possibly ADHD. As soon as he realises he's not a successful Football Manager, or a competent one at that the better.

He really needs to be gone and have an adult take charge of team affairs.

One thing I will say though, and we saw the same in Paul Lambert which makes me think Paddy Reilly is the main player acquirer that under him we've signed some cracking players. Maybe time we had a Manager that actually knows what to do with them.

[villa89]

In Tom Fox we trust?

Aren't Tim and Tom buddies? Also Tom appointed this muppet so he'll give him every chance to succeed (which he won't). The real question is how dire will the situation be before Tim is finally sacked?

[Arj Guy]

The worrying thing for me is nowhere is the media is there any suggestion that his position might be under threat.

I would not worry too much about Fox being concerned about sacking Sherwood too quickly. A CEO is not employed to be sentimental, he is employed to make tough decisions and Fox strikes me as a man well capable of making such decisions.

 

That's because the media doesn't give a flying **** about us. Plus on tv pundits will stick up for managers no matter what. Before Lambert went he was still backed by people on soccer Saturday.

[Arj Guy]

I don't have any faith in Fox whatsoever. He took the easy and most obvious option with Sherwood. His reason behind it was that Sherwood was a young and exciting, up and coming manager. Utter bollocks. He did a shit job at Spurs and is doing a shit job at Villa 

[TrentVilla]

If we get the spanking I think we will get at Chelsea I can see it turning pretty ugly by the Swansea game.

[CrackpotForeigner]

 Not great but id take Eva Carnerio at this stage.

Me too, but we also need to choose a manager.

[Dr_Pangloss]

 Not great but id take Eva Carnerio at this stage.

 

Me too, but we also need to choose a manager.

I'd 'take' her too

[PieFacE]

I just don't see Fox sacking him now.  Think it's too early.  Which is a shame. 

 

I'm sick and tired of wanting managers sacked,  can't we just hire someone good ffs? 

 

Get Sam in,  even if we do go down with him he will get us back up again.  

[markavfc40]

He won't be sacked now. Not a chance. A defeat against Chelsea, unless it is a total annihilation, also won't result in him getting the push. However the Swansea game will then be pivotal. We will most likely go into that game, the tenth game of the season, at least 4 points from safety having suffered seven defeats in nine. Failure to win and I would then say his job is in serious danger.

I know it appears reading this forum that most fans are against him and that may well translate to the broader fan base. However that hasn't been transmitted at games yet as there has been no anti Sherwood chanting. I think defeat at Chelsea and failure to beat Swansea and that will change and things will get very hostile. That alongside a diabolical start, despite only being in October, may well be enough for Lerner/Fox to act.

[Arj Guy]

Tbh I was suprised that there was no anti Sherwood chants yesterday. Surely there will be when we get dicked by Swansea

[StefanAVFC]

There was lots of anti-Sherwood shouts around me at the final whistle.

[markavfc40]

There was lots of anti-Sherwood shouts around me at the final whistle.

There were a few telling Sherwood to f**k off around me as well. However there was no mass chanting