Dante_Lockhart Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Owners play a fairly insignificant role in the NFL as their revenues are divided equally amongst all 32 franchises, there is a salary cap, and a draft for incoming talents from the college ranks. It's basically hit or miss depending on the General Manager (CEO) you hire and in turn the Head Coach they hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Compare us to the Steelers again... I dare ya. Haha I was waiting for you to pop in Dante...for the sake of it, I was going to compare Ravens to WBA :winkold: ....btw, lovely emoticon BOF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Compare us to the Steelers again... I dare ya. Haha I was waiting for you to pop in Dante...for the sake of it, I was going to compare Ravens to WBA :winkold: ....btw, lovely emoticon BOF! I'm predictable if anything 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 3, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted August 3, 2012 "Us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 3, 2012 I don't get ya Mike. Villa are 'us', no? Our Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copey11 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 OK, must comment now. This is going to be long, but if you are interested in the Randy history with the Browns I will do my best to sum up. Browns fans are not like Blues, nor are the Steelers like Villa. Other than a rivalry, there are no similarities. If anything, the Browns are closer to Villa than anyone else. Browns fans are very downtrodden, and have a love/hate relationship with the Lerner family. We were a competitive team with a championship history that was effectively "sabotaged" into mediocrity in an effort to move the team by Art Modell. Al Lerner (Randy's daddy) helped Modell move the team, in fact the papers were signed aboard Al Lerner's jet as they flew to Baltimore to become the Ravens (stink eye at Dante). Villa equivalent? Effectively disappearing from league football altogether, not relegation, ceasing to exist. Al Lerner then negotiated himself ownership of the Browns as an "expansion" team (adding a team to the league, not purchasing an existing team and moving to Cleveland). Cleveland fans were grateful for this, though the City had actually negotiated with the NFL that we would have the next expansion franchise and retain the name and colors, history, etc. and Al Lerner was essentially "next in line" from the NFL point of view to own a team (this is actually similar to the new owner of the Browns, who the NFL had essentially vetted through a minority ownership in the *spit* Steelers, he was next in line for a team should one come on the market). The NFL set this up very poorly, giving the team and Al Lerner very little time to prepare for the upcoming season, put a management structure in place, hire the coach, and prepare for the draft (both the college draft and the expansion draft, which allows a new team to take players deemed unprotected from the rest of the league). Of course the results were disastrous, exacerbated by continued poor drafting and management by the Lerner-led organization, though they were always in a hole. Football comparison? closest I can come up with would be Rangers Newco. Al Lerner passes away and bequeaths the team to his son. Randy is influential, as was his father, in league business, and acts as a good steward to the Cleveland fans (refusing to grant naming rights to the stadium, keeping ticket and concession prices low despite NFL pressure to increase them - shared revenue don'tcha know). He also was never shy about paying money for coaches, front office personnel, or free agents (transfers and wages), but he repeatedly failed (like his father) to implement an effective organization, one with a plan and vision that was in a position to execute properly to allow both the team to compete, and manage the business effectively This ranged from giving too much power to a single person, to hiring people not matched for each other, not having controls in place, etc. Comparison - O'Neill - Faulkner - Houllier - McLeish. This rendered the Browns essentially non-competitive for a decade, and in a precarious position for the future. The team had no hope of being competitive, and was losing value as an entity. Enter Holmgren. Randy decides to go all out (paying large sums of money to get an incredibly well respected NFL veteran) and hire Paul Holmgren as President, giving him freedom to set up the organization properly. Holmgren (after a throw away year) hires a GM and coach that all follow a single philosophy and plan, which is to completely turn over the roster and build a style of play with young, hungry players through the draft, eschewing high priced free agents (transfers) that will add little in overall team success while costing a lot of money against the salary cap (wage bill). Comparison - Paul Lambert thus far. The last three seasons have seen continued poor results, but the team is now poised for some success with young, talented, hungry players chosen for a specific style of play that has a history of success. Most Browns fans realize that this is the case, but after so many years of dysfuntion, not to mention a healthy skepticism of the Lerner's from the beginning, the news of him selling is widely considered a good thing, though the timing is being seen as yet another in a long line of poor decisions as the season is about to start and the uncertainty over the next owner and his team and the actions they will take (generally wanting to "bring in their own people") threatens to not only "blow up" the current management structure, but also be yet another dawn of "rebuilding" as the team MAY have to change to a new philosophy. Comparison? possibly Blackburn, possibly Man City - who the hell knows. Reasons for the sale? There has been talk of a 10 year moratorium from Al Lerner on the sale, but not confirmed. Recent rumblings are that the years of poor results, fans blaming Randy and general ill will (his son has transferred to a school in NY supposedly due to abuse received about the Browns) has worn him down. Others saying this is a way to monetize a large family asset during tougher times. Only Randy knows. To sum up, Browns fans have had it rough for a long time and can be vitriolic towards the Lerner's, especially Randy, but it is a minority of fans that are quite so outwardly hostile. I have seen similar posts in here on Randy as well, some continue despite the recent spate of optimism (McLeish was here not long ago...), but most Browns fans acknowledge that he tried hard, failed in a tough situation, genuinely seemed to be trying to make the Browns succeed, but ultimately wasn't going to be able to do so whether it was skill or lack of passion. Hope this wasn't too long and shines some light on the Randy/Browns relationship. UTV, GO BROWNS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiezels Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Flol at that reply gif. Literally just shot snot out my nose ffs. Very good post though. Had no idea on the background so thanks for taking the time to post mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 ^^ Hah!! Interesting post Copey11 thanks for sharing. What I do not understand is why are Browns fans so pissed off with us in all of this? Its not as if we are currently high flying and winning trophies left right and center is it. Is it really a case of Randy having purchased Villa himself and so cares more as PF has suggested in recent comments he made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copey11 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Just a scatter-gun approach to venting Tayls. Just like we did here last season, when things are going poorly people try to apportion blame or find a reasoning behind it. When Randy bought Villa the Browns fans thought he wasn't trying to make them better and was just jet-setting around buying a "soccer plaything" instead of making the Browns win. When he was spending time in Cleveland last season and McLeish was trying to relegate us, many said the same thing. To be honest, most Browns fans don't care or even know who we Villans are, but there are actually a lot of fans like me, who not only know of Villa, but have become die-hard supporters since Randy purchased us. As for the gif above, you are just lucky I didn't go into detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGregor1888 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Great stuff Copey. Thanks for the analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Flol at that reply gif. Literally just shot snot out my nose ffs. Never seen this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Surely Manure are most like the Pats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioVilla Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 First of all, please never compare me to the Blows fans again. What I do not understand is why are Browns fans so pissed off with us in all of this? Same reason most Villa fans hated Lerner for being in Cleveland so much. Neither fanbase was happy with Randy. It just so happens that the Browns had a year like Villa had last year for nearly 13 straight years. That being said, yes, we all have our share of the ignorant. Not all Browns fans immediately associate soccer with "fags". But then again, seeing that I am an American, I guess that doesn't shock me as much. Soccer, and like wise the fans, take a lot of flak over here. I wish I could explain it more, but I don't feel like writing an entire thesis paper on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Haha I knew I opened up a can of worms with the Browns/Blues reference. All just a matter of opinion of course, and me just kind of being a bit of a wind up merchant as a massive Steelers fan :winkold: I know I would go mental is somebody referred to me as being in anyway similar to a Blues fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiezels Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Flol at that reply gif. Literally just shot snot out my nose ffs. Never seen this? Like very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 they have coaches in american football? how does that session go? "you, run up the field, the rest of you roll around before you throw it 20 yards and we have a 10 minute time out" repeat as required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 what a nice bunch they are i couldnt give a flying feck about the browns. hopefully this means he is over for more villa games and gives more comitment to us Yep. Maybe we can rename the "Browns and the NFL" section just "The NFL" section... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 OK, must comment now. This is going to be long, but if you are interested in the Randy history with the Browns I will do my best to sum up. Browns fans are not like Blues, nor are the Steelers like Villa. Other than a rivalry, there are no similarities. If anything, the Browns are closer to Villa than anyone else. Browns fans are very downtrodden, and have a love/hate relationship with the Lerner family. We were a competitive team with a championship history that was effectively "sabotaged" into mediocrity in an effort to move the team by Art Modell. Al Lerner (Randy's daddy) helped Modell move the team, in fact the papers were signed aboard Al Lerner's jet as they flew to Baltimore to become the Ravens (stink eye at Dante). Villa equivalent? Effectively disappearing from league football altogether, not relegation, ceasing to exist. Al Lerner then negotiated himself ownership of the Browns as an "expansion" team (adding a team to the league, not purchasing an existing team and moving to Cleveland). Cleveland fans were grateful for this, though the City had actually negotiated with the NFL that we would have the next expansion franchise and retain the name and colors, history, etc. and Al Lerner was essentially "next in line" from the NFL point of view to own a team (this is actually similar to the new owner of the Browns, who the NFL had essentially vetted through a minority ownership in the *spit* Steelers, he was next in line for a team should one come on the market). The NFL set this up very poorly, giving the team and Al Lerner very little time to prepare for the upcoming season, put a management structure in place, hire the coach, and prepare for the draft (both the college draft and the expansion draft, which allows a new team to take players deemed unprotected from the rest of the league). Of course the results were disastrous, exacerbated by continued poor drafting and management by the Lerner-led organization, though they were always in a hole. Football comparison? closest I can come up with would be Rangers Newco. Al Lerner passes away and bequeaths the team to his son. Randy is influential, as was his father, in league business, and acts as a good steward to the Cleveland fans (refusing to grant naming rights to the stadium, keeping ticket and concession prices low despite NFL pressure to increase them - shared revenue don'tcha know). He also was never shy about paying money for coaches, front office personnel, or free agents (transfers and wages), but he repeatedly failed (like his father) to implement an effective organization, one with a plan and vision that was in a position to execute properly to allow both the team to compete, and manage the business effectively This ranged from giving too much power to a single person, to hiring people not matched for each other, not having controls in place, etc. Comparison - O'Neill - Faulkner - Houllier - McLeish. This rendered the Browns essentially non-competitive for a decade, and in a precarious position for the future. The team had no hope of being competitive, and was losing value as an entity. Enter Holmgren. Randy decides to go all out (paying large sums of money to get an incredibly well respected NFL veteran) and hire Paul Holmgren as President, giving him freedom to set up the organization properly. Holmgren (after a throw away year) hires a GM and coach that all follow a single philosophy and plan, which is to completely turn over the roster and build a style of play with young, hungry players through the draft, eschewing high priced free agents (transfers) that will add little in overall team success while costing a lot of money against the salary cap (wage bill). Comparison - Paul Lambert thus far. The last three seasons have seen continued poor results, but the team is now poised for some success with young, talented, hungry players chosen for a specific style of play that has a history of success. Most Browns fans realize that this is the case, but after so many years of dysfuntion, not to mention a healthy skepticism of the Lerner's from the beginning, the news of him selling is widely considered a good thing, though the timing is being seen as yet another in a long line of poor decisions as the season is about to start and the uncertainty over the next owner and his team and the actions they will take (generally wanting to "bring in their own people") threatens to not only "blow up" the current management structure, but also be yet another dawn of "rebuilding" as the team MAY have to change to a new philosophy. Comparison? possibly Blackburn, possibly Man City - who the hell knows. Reasons for the sale? There has been talk of a 10 year moratorium from Al Lerner on the sale, but not confirmed. Recent rumblings are that the years of poor results, fans blaming Randy and general ill will (his son has transferred to a school in NY supposedly due to abuse received about the Browns) has worn him down. Others saying this is a way to monetize a large family asset during tougher times. Only Randy knows. To sum up, Browns fans have had it rough for a long time and can be vitriolic towards the Lerner's, especially Randy, but it is a minority of fans that are quite so outwardly hostile. I have seen similar posts in here on Randy as well, some continue despite the recent spate of optimism (McLeish was here not long ago...), but most Browns fans acknowledge that he tried hard, failed in a tough situation, genuinely seemed to be trying to make the Browns succeed, but ultimately wasn't going to be able to do so whether it was skill or lack of passion. Hope this wasn't too long and shines some light on the Randy/Browns relationship. UTV, GO BROWNS 20 more paragraphs before you rival Levi Ramsey for verbosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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